The Solomani, not just bad guys anymore

[Sophiathegreen]

Actural Islam will last along time as it is than religious that have writeing from the founder that sugguest that he belive than the Big Bang Creation of the Univers and Dawn theoy of Evolution of life by natural selection. Plus Islam is than way of life not
than religion. Islam is make up of many different sects that have different views of the Koran some willnot allow alchol drinking at all while some will allow unbeliever to drink alchol as long they donot get drunk in public. It only afew nut case that have than very execent view that arract western media attendence. Bin Osnar have no real scholary standing in the Islamic legal communtry to issue religious ruleing on Islamist belief.In my 3rd Imperium there is than Calip that service as the autherity on religious legal matter, there are other religious group but not as widespead in the Imperium as Islam. In Islam today there is no Calip
or Sultan to tell people like Bin Osnar that they are wrong and not following Islamist teaching at all.

 

[TKalbfus]

Quite possibly.
Its a good concept for introducing new players to the Traveller Universe. I don't of course mean 1 character named Buck Rogers, just the concept of a space fighter pilot getting stranded in space and going into cold sleep for 5,000 years or so. That character's origins are in our own near future (Probably the later part of the 21st century or early 22nd.) Probably after the year 2087, when the Terrans discover the jump drive. Quite possible these characters could be veterans of the First Interstellar War, they go into cold sleep in their fighters after their carrier is destroyed, and the Vilani fail to find them. These "Buck Rogers" characters don't know anything about any Terran Confederation, (they fought for the UN) they don't know who won the First Interstellar War, and as far as they know the Third Imperium could be the victorious Vilani Empire. These characters speak English of course, while the 57th century characters speak Galanglic (which is decended from English but has changed so much over 5,000 years as to be a completely different language.) The Terrans are going to need an archivist in order to speak to these revived humans. No doubt a computer can be programmed to translate English into Galanglic and back again. The next tough part is for them to determine who the good guys are. Do they trust a Princess of the Third Imperium, or do they trust the somewhat bigoted Solomani human rebels?

 

[sandman]

Indeed, for players that have no knowledge of Traveller it`s a perfect way to introduce them to the setting.

A Good Culture Shock is nice to jumpstart adventuring

 

[Sophiathegreen]

Actural I alway have the Solomani be the raceist bad guy remember the Imperium was very unwilling to goto war with the Solomani in the first place untril the Solomani push then into it by mistreating the alliens of Vegra I believe. I than going by memmony here.

 

[TKalbfus]

I believe the Imperium objected mostly to the Solomani sphere gaining independence. The racist part was true and the Imperium probably used it to the hilt as a propaganda tool to motivate its soldiers to fight, but that wasn't the primary motivation of the Imperium.

 

[Murph]

Polite request. Can this be transferred to the IMTU forum? Or perhaps the Scout forum? Thanks in advance.

 

[Spinward Scout]

<<<Also I never liked the use of what has become the symbol of the KKK/Aryan Nation - the circled cross - as the symbol of the Solomani.>>>

The circled cross is the Greek symbol for Earth. The KKK can kiss my...

Thinking of a good Vilani expletive...

Scout

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Dameon Toth Detached Scout:
The circled cross is the Greek symbol for Earth. The KKK can kiss my...

Sing it, Brother!

The Solomani Symbol is the Greek symbol for Earth and is frequently seen in Astrology. Is every Astrologer a racist? I think not!

Besides, the Solomani as described in Aliens 6 and subsequent places is Soviet Style Troika gov't with some bigoted overtones. It's as Soviet as it is National Socialist... mind you both are pernicious forms of totalitarianism, so they do have some common downsides...

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

I don't think the Solomani have the monopoly on racism either. There's a lot of major race/minor race snobbery going on all over the Imperium, lots of anti-Zhodani sentiment... the Imperials aren't exactly squeaky-clean at any rate, though they may be more subtle in their bigotry than the Solomani.

 

[Murph]

I like the Solomani, I think they are much more interesting than the 3rd Imperium. There is just so much you can do with the Solomani; like having REAL scouts and explorers. Viva El Solomani!

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Murph:

Also I never liked the use of what has become the symbol of the KKK/Aryan Nation (the circled cross) as the symbol of the Solomani. I understand that this was done on purpose to keep the players Imperial, but I think that the majority of the players would have chosen the Imperial side anyway.

This stereotype of despotic overlords and omnipresent secret service bothers me.

Solomani, and proud of it.

The reason you are uncomfortable with the Solomani portrayal as jackbooted fascists is because you are a Solomani yourself. You are uncomfortable with the notion of some Science Fiction game FICTIONALLY HYPOTHESIZING that your descendants might end up to be jackbooted oppressive racist bastards.

I understand your discomfort. But then why don't I remind you a couple of things:

#1) this is a FICTIONAL GAME! Stop being so emotionally attached and worked up if some FICTIONAL game portrays your descendants as a bunch of jack-booted nasty xenophobic villains.

#2) would you rather that Traveller portrays your decscendants as the cliche and boring "Good Guys" all the time? You know what I mean? Terrans as the Good Guys, The Rest of the Universe as Bad Guys? You know how tripe and over-done that is? Star Trek did that for years. So did every other boring and unimaginative SciFi novel.

We should THANK GDW and Marc Miller that they actually managed to be imaginative and creative here. It's the first time in Science Fiction that the Earth Peoples' children have been portrayed as "The Bad Guys". Maybe not the first time.

#3) Like someone said above, it's also a matter of perspective. Not everyone in the Solomani Confederation are nasty jackbooted oppressors and racist xenophobes. The bigshots who run the Solomani Party and SolSec might be, but the vast majority of the Solomani civilians are probably nice good-hearted and open-minded people. This is how the Solomani are portrayed in DGP's sourcebook "Solomani and Aslan" as well as in Steve Jackson's Rim of Fire. The vast majority of Solomani Confederation citizens are good-hearted and honest people who are civilized. They are simply governed by powerful people who tend to be more racist, xenophobic, arrogant and overproud of their heritage (Solomani Cause), and distrustful of neighboring empires.

#4) I do not want to assume how much role playing experience you have. May I ask if you have ever role-played one of the "bad guys" before? Have you done it extensively? Have you done it and come out with a satisfying experience in gaming? Like myself, have you actually played a game like Star Wars Galaxies, and spent countless months role-playing a character that serves loyally with Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader?

The reason I ask is because.... competent role players that play the part of the "bad guys" will find out that the "bad guys" label is an inappropriate label, altho we all use it liberally (I'm guilty of this as well)

When I was role playing in SWG, my character served the Galactic Empire with pride, and in my character point of view.... it was those goddam Rebels who were the bad guys. It was the Rebellion and their Jedi and their Corrupt Republic who were the thugs, the terrorists, the rapists, and the ones who bring conflict. The Empire of Palpatine brought stability and law and order and commerce. The Rebels brought a civil war that ravaged the known space and resulted in the death of billions.

I just wanted to bring up this example, because role playing is an awesome experience. And if all you do is limit yourself to role-playing the cliche "Good Guys" all the time, then you are limiting yourself.

The people behind the uniforms of the Galactic Imperial Grand Moffs have feelings too. They have families, they have wives, they have children that they love and feed. They have a job to do. They have am empire to serve and defend and protect.

The people behind the uniforms of SolSec have feelings too. They have families, they have wives, they have children that they love and feed. They have a job to do. They have a government to serve and defend and protect.

The people behind the military uniforms of Klingon Empire have feelings too. They have families, they have wives, they have children and honor to protect. They have a job to do. They have a proud empire to serve and defend and protect.

I hope I made my point....

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Dameon Toth Detached Scout:
<<<Also I never liked the use of what has become the symbol of the KKK/Aryan Nation - the circled cross - as the symbol of the Solomani.>>>

The circled cross is the Greek symbol for Earth. The KKK can kiss my...

Thinking of a good Vilani expletive...

I believe the Vilani word for this is "buutii"

 

[Murph]

Been doing it since 1978. Played on all sides, its just Canon CT seems to have a portrayal of the Solomani as bumbling idiots (a la "Duck Soup"). I am not asking that they be made the "goodie two shoes" of the game, but heck, the Vargr are treated better than the Solomani. Don't forget that the Solomani at least handled the Imperium almost as harshly as the Zhodani.....

 

[Golan2072]

Also remember that the SolParty is extremely factionalized, to such a degree that, atleast on some worlds, it could be considered to be a loose coalition of *several* parties instead of the stereotypical "single party state".

Sure, the "hardliner" factions of the SolParty are as racist as you can imagine - but they are just *one* faction, and in many cases a minority.

Generally I see the Confederacy as something more similar to Apartheid-era South Africa or to the 1920's south USA rather than to any true fascist government, unless the "hardliner" faction is in absolute power, which isn't THAT common. They are racist to a degree, not very democratic, quite militaristic to say the least - but they don't (usually) engage in genocide.

Also, the Confederacy isn't Stalinist per se, even though it has several similarities to Stalinism; economically speaking, Stalinism means that the entire economy is run by a bureaucratic oligarchy, and the SolConfed, while having several large corporations under government ownership, controls only a part of the market. So economically speaking, it is far more similar to the "state capitalism" of the 1950's Israel than to true Stalinism.

 

[parmasson]

Also remember that the SolParty is extremely factionalized, to such a degree that, atleast on some worlds, it could be considered to be a loose coalition of *several* parties instead of the stereotypical "single party state"

Given Traveller’s communications lag a politically homogeneous state would be nearly impossible for humans to maintain.

Look at the Imperium, talk about political diversity.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by Murph:
I never liked the comic opera portrayal of the Solomani. I mean they were depicted as a cross between a Stalinist/Nazi empire with strong overtones of Mussolini's Italy thrown in.

I rather like the portrayal of the Solomani as suffering from a profound racial superiority complex - I think expanding out into space and finding it filled with your genetic simulacra could lead to the sort of inordinate sense of self-worth to which many in our own world are perhaps too often prone.

It makes sense to me.

Originally posted by Murph:
I always saw them as the counter balance to the Imperium, but freer, and more open in many ways. Kinda like the US in the early 1900's with the Imperium being the British Empire of the same period.

The United States in the early 1900s was as actually a pretty racist and xenophobic society, trying to hold back the tide of shiftless, unwashed immigrants from southern and eastern Europe and from Asia.

Originally posted by Murph:
This stereotype of despotic overlords and omnipresent secret service bothers me. The Imperium has just as wide an intellegence arm as the Solomani, and can be just as repressive.

That's certainly true enough IMCTU - there really are no "black hats" and "white hats" but rather differing regimes doing what regimes do best - beating down anyone who would aspire to take away their power.

In the interests of board harmony and mutual respect for my fellow Travellers, I'll refrain from using real-world analogs with respect to my views of the Imperium and the Confederation - suffice it to say that the Solomani IMTU could be represented by any number of 20th and 21st century regimes with which I imagine most of us are familiar, and the analogs don't necessarily correspond to Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, or Soviet Russia. I think there are plenty of other states and ideologies that are just as disturbing.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I think Maladominus has hit it pretty solidly - there's a wee bit of "ownership pride" of that Solomani rep. And, BGG, yeah, there are always folks who will try to profit from anything: just look at recent (last few decades) US history for slimy people trying to profit politically off death/destruction/suffering/etc.

As I say regularly: 57 centuries won't be nearly enough to really change the human condition.

I would say the rehab that needs to be done is just to provide some variety to each race's psych profile over a period of TU history. That way there isn't so much of a "racial" portrayal of humaniti (all xxxx are this way, all yyyy are that way).

 

[Murph]

So in other words the KGB is running the Solomani Confederation?

 

[Blue Ghost]

That's kind of how the Solomani confederation is described.

 

[aramis]

So in other words the KGB is running the Solomani Confederation?

The Solomani Confed is canonically a monoparty regulated capitalist-socialist state where the state security Agency is entirely run by party apporatshiki and has more authority than the KGB, with speciesist slavery and apartheid (which applies depends on species), and McCarthyist attitudes towards dissent amongst the people.

It's the worst features of 1940's Russia, 1900's South Africa, 1830's and 1950's US.