The Solomani, not just bad guys anymore
- Thread starter Murph
- Start date
The Traveller races are not based on anything in the real world political-wise or realistic-wise.
Nightwind1
SOC-12
Well, sure, that's what they WANT you to think. And what the official news service tells you...
Just my 0.2CR
I think that the Solomani's attitude can be affected by where they are within the Confederation:
Those in Dark Nebula, Ustral Quadrant, Canopus and Magyar could have strong 'protectionists' feelings against the Aslan.
Those in Magyar, Solomani Rim and Alpha Crucis would have strong anti-Imperial feelings
Those in Spica and Langere would be ill at ease with the Hivers.
Aldrebran and Neworld would think "Go rimward young one, go rimward!"
That leaves Reavers Deep, Daibei and Old Expanses.
Daibei and Old Expanses are going to be more militarily oriented against the 3I.
Reavers Deep would be the area of the the most acceptance and cosmopolitan of the Confederation and as such looked on as 'weird and liberal' while those in the Deep look on the rest of the Confederation as 'paranoid isolationists', 'revenge minded boobs' or 'realists, expanding the Confederation to gain new markets and territory'
Just thoughts.
I think that the Solomani's attitude can be affected by where they are within the Confederation:
Those in Dark Nebula, Ustral Quadrant, Canopus and Magyar could have strong 'protectionists' feelings against the Aslan.
Those in Magyar, Solomani Rim and Alpha Crucis would have strong anti-Imperial feelings
Those in Spica and Langere would be ill at ease with the Hivers.
Aldrebran and Neworld would think "Go rimward young one, go rimward!"
That leaves Reavers Deep, Daibei and Old Expanses.
Daibei and Old Expanses are going to be more militarily oriented against the 3I.
Reavers Deep would be the area of the the most acceptance and cosmopolitan of the Confederation and as such looked on as 'weird and liberal' while those in the Deep look on the rest of the Confederation as 'paranoid isolationists', 'revenge minded boobs' or 'realists, expanding the Confederation to gain new markets and territory'
Just thoughts.
"How many Solomani does it take to change a light bulb? I'm sorry that information is classified, now if you'd just accompany me to the local SolSec office."
IMO the Solomani stay together partly due to fear of the their neighbors, partly out of a desire to recover lost territories, partly because enough of them realize one big state is better than lots of little ones (well at least at the moment.)
Also look at the GT TNS entries, there may be changes in the wind in the Confederation. Though, the ascendancy of the nationalists over the radicals may not be a good thing for the Imperium.
IMO the Solomani stay together partly due to fear of the their neighbors, partly out of a desire to recover lost territories, partly because enough of them realize one big state is better than lots of little ones (well at least at the moment.)
Also look at the GT TNS entries, there may be changes in the wind in the Confederation. Though, the ascendancy of the nationalists over the radicals may not be a good thing for the Imperium.
For me the Solomani are the Browncoats who turned bad because of the psychology of defeat. They are neither good nor bad, just have a different point of view.
Liberty is easily sacrificed in the time of war. What the defeat engendered in the Solomani was the feeling of a permanent war. Therefore, are able to award great liberty or freedom to its citizens but has narrowly defined who is a citizen unlike the Imperial Universal Citizen - citizens are those deserving of rights. The Imperium does the same but in a more obtuse way. So, the racism of the Solomani Confederation is rather the belief in human superiority. So, when the Solomani do accept restrictions upon their liberty within the sphere they know it is because there is a greater good at state.
Liberty is easily sacrificed in the time of war. What the defeat engendered in the Solomani was the feeling of a permanent war. Therefore, are able to award great liberty or freedom to its citizens but has narrowly defined who is a citizen unlike the Imperial Universal Citizen - citizens are those deserving of rights. The Imperium does the same but in a more obtuse way. So, the racism of the Solomani Confederation is rather the belief in human superiority. So, when the Solomani do accept restrictions upon their liberty within the sphere they know it is because there is a greater good at state.
Easterner9504
SOC-13
All this thread is is a reverse of the HOW DARK IS YOUR THIRD IMPERIUM? i.e. HOW LIGHT IS YOUR SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION?
Historical context is needed.
How likely were a bunch of university types in Normal, Ill familiar with Klan symbology?
How likely were Normal university types to be versed in the classics and if nothing else be familiar with Battlefleet: Mars from SPI 1977. It used the old symbols for each planet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_symbols
2ND How could Sollies go so wrong?
Same way Japan did in 1920's. Militant army types wanted Japan expanded. They assasinated anyone block this goal and the Code of Bushido came to the fore. By 1930's they treated civilians and prisoners as expendable and hasted their end for good measure. Yet pre-1920's their was no sign of this. Japan's troops showed chivalry in Russo-Japanese and WWI conflicts. They bent over to peacably assimilate the Formosans in 1895. They wanted the West to look favorably on them in their rise to Major Power status. In less than a descade it was gone.
Solli History.
The 3rd Imperium was ruled exclusively by pure blood Solklies from year 0 to 666. Then the new emperor began to banish Sol Party members f4rom court, then all but anti-party Sols, then Vilani moved back in and Emperor married a Vilani blood woman. The Sollies were forced in Autonomous Zone by 3rd Imperium unasked.
This traumatic event triggered the personality change seem in Sollies, rejected and scorned they lashed out. Exterminating Droynes and Chirpers putting Vega under the boot. They got away with this for 2.5 centuries when the 3rd's said, "I'm shocked, shocked at how you treat folks."
WAR
War lost but 3I busted up bad, too bad to continue. Conquest of Earth was both decisive and Pyrric (they couldn't afford another fight and essentially let the Sollies become independent) so Sollies became independent de facto though never de jure as far as 3I would admit.
Germany, never quite beaten in the field they were burned at Versailles. Two extreme factions the 3rd Way Socialists i.e. Nazi/fascist versus Party Line Communists aka Russian puppets fought for control of Germany, The Nationalists triumphed over the Radicals got elected to office and road to WW2 began.
So Solomani Confed was built on 3 legged stool Party,/SOLSEC/NAVY. But Navy was smashed in war leaving SOLSEC/PARTY to become dominant resulting in Sollie history.
So how light are Sollies. As light as you want. Just recall that many leaders are dark and use propaganda to condition folks to accept what they do. No different than anywhere else.
Historical context is needed.
How likely were a bunch of university types in Normal, Ill familiar with Klan symbology?
How likely were Normal university types to be versed in the classics and if nothing else be familiar with Battlefleet: Mars from SPI 1977. It used the old symbols for each planet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_symbols
2ND How could Sollies go so wrong?
Same way Japan did in 1920's. Militant army types wanted Japan expanded. They assasinated anyone block this goal and the Code of Bushido came to the fore. By 1930's they treated civilians and prisoners as expendable and hasted their end for good measure. Yet pre-1920's their was no sign of this. Japan's troops showed chivalry in Russo-Japanese and WWI conflicts. They bent over to peacably assimilate the Formosans in 1895. They wanted the West to look favorably on them in their rise to Major Power status. In less than a descade it was gone.
Solli History.
The 3rd Imperium was ruled exclusively by pure blood Solklies from year 0 to 666. Then the new emperor began to banish Sol Party members f4rom court, then all but anti-party Sols, then Vilani moved back in and Emperor married a Vilani blood woman. The Sollies were forced in Autonomous Zone by 3rd Imperium unasked.
This traumatic event triggered the personality change seem in Sollies, rejected and scorned they lashed out. Exterminating Droynes and Chirpers putting Vega under the boot. They got away with this for 2.5 centuries when the 3rd's said, "I'm shocked, shocked at how you treat folks."
WAR
War lost but 3I busted up bad, too bad to continue. Conquest of Earth was both decisive and Pyrric (they couldn't afford another fight and essentially let the Sollies become independent) so Sollies became independent de facto though never de jure as far as 3I would admit.
Germany, never quite beaten in the field they were burned at Versailles. Two extreme factions the 3rd Way Socialists i.e. Nazi/fascist versus Party Line Communists aka Russian puppets fought for control of Germany, The Nationalists triumphed over the Radicals got elected to office and road to WW2 began.
So Solomani Confed was built on 3 legged stool Party,/SOLSEC/NAVY. But Navy was smashed in war leaving SOLSEC/PARTY to become dominant resulting in Sollie history.
So how light are Sollies. As light as you want. Just recall that many leaders are dark and use propaganda to condition folks to accept what they do. No different than anywhere else.
By the early 1100's the Solomani were in decline, like a nicely polished pair of jackboots that is in dire need of being re-soled. Their pride was the only thing they had left and even that was faint praise, they were a sad people with a sad history by the time the roof fell in with the coming of the virus. Much of it traces back to their ancient history; colonization efforts focused on escaping a miserable hell that earth had become. By the late 21st century Terran, most higher forms of plant and animal life were extinct, the resource wars had left large areas of the northern hemisphere radioactive wastelands, in effort to tame the teeming billions; all art, culture, history and religion was destroyed. This is why it took so long to prove the Solomani hypothesis, eventually all women and children were banned as well, in order to make a clean break with procreation. Society had become hyper-militarized, composed of cyborg super soldiers, for which the discovery of the Vilani, had proved provident in giving them and enemy to fight. Though the Vilani culture saved civilization, when the Vilani first saw Terrans they recoiled in horror, this being the root of the early prejudice between the two cultures. These times lay the roots for many traditions, the prejudice against cybernectics and genetic tampering with the human genome in the current era. Even in the Rule of Man, the Earth was abandoned to it's sad fate, a stinking slum where pollution filled the land, air and sea.
Easterner9504
SOC-13
Where does that history come from?
For me, IMTU it was that the Sollies are descendants of clone armies that fought against the 1st Imperium hence the importance of bloodlines and genetic purity. They were raised not to think but to battle. Eventually, they did assimilate but at the price of being different even from the Terrans who bred like rabbits across the stars.
I agree the dissatisfaction thesis but it goes back to the Long Night with the Pocket Empire of the Old Earth Union. Earth had long established a viable interstellar state and stabilized the worst after effects of the Long Night - think of countries in this global crisis that are doing moderately well. Yes, there is chaos raging around them but for intensive purposes they are stable. In comes the 3i offers them a sweet deal for entry, they agree but find the Impies are constantly changing the terms of the agreement. In the meantime, commercial interests of the Old Earth Union long since expanded Rimward hooking up with lost colonies.
Forming a proto-Solomani-First identity, all this is submerged until the Psionic Suppressions which was viewed as a slight against Terra (which according to T4 is where the Vilani exiled all their psionic dissidents...so it is logical that the purge was also politically motivated). By that time, there was a rift between Imperial Solomani (and the miscreant mongrels that made up most of the 3I) and the Rimward and Trailing humans.
Combined with a sense of injustice, this led to a bid for supremacy much like the South in the American Civil War to lay claim to the "Third Imperium of Mankind" their failure resulted in a social revolution against the everything the Imperium stood for...and they began to create social structures that were fundamentally different. So, there they wait Rimward rebuilding and always paranoid that the 3i is going to invade. Fortunately, they enough defences to repel the Imperials but not enough unfortunately to push their way to Capital. So their tale is of a tragedy but in that tragedy lies hubris...which is what causes the Solomani to be so intolerant.
Something I came up with to explain why things are the way they are when players ask. Esp about cybernectics and such. Though the northern hemisphere wastelands you can see on invasion earth, europe is uninhabited north of the Alps.
I play the Terrans just after first contact with the Valani at Bernard's star, the Chineese, Russia, EU, USA, and coalations of third rate nations have had popular demand forcing their leaders to support maximum effort colonization to get out there and grab systems before the Valani get it all.
That the valani are not Homo Sapiens is accepted by the entire Terran polulace, the term Homo Galatus was bandied about in some circles before more contact with the Valani discovered the existance of at first a few, and later dozens of other Minor races of Homo. Gene sequencing efforts with comparisons with DNA samples obtained from neolithic sites showed that the genetic lines of Terrans and Valani diverged about 300,000 years ago, with popular media labling the Valani as "cavemen".
That prejudicial term persisted throught the interstellar wars period, and into the Rule of man period. All colonies established by the nation states of Terra in the interstellar wars period would have started their existance with this mind set. The assumption that Homo Sapiens was better than the Homo Vlandisis or the other cavemen decended was a prime motivator of the times, and the attitude survives into current day times on these Terran colonies.
What the current day leaders do with this attitude is up to the ref to determine, but it would take extreme text book revisionist policies to eliminate this from the public's store of accepted facts.
So in my view, the Species chavanusim exhibited by most of the population of the interstellar wars period colonies would continue to be a force in politics.
That the valani are not Homo Sapiens is accepted by the entire Terran polulace, the term Homo Galatus was bandied about in some circles before more contact with the Valani discovered the existance of at first a few, and later dozens of other Minor races of Homo. Gene sequencing efforts with comparisons with DNA samples obtained from neolithic sites showed that the genetic lines of Terrans and Valani diverged about 300,000 years ago, with popular media labling the Valani as "cavemen".
That prejudicial term persisted throught the interstellar wars period, and into the Rule of man period. All colonies established by the nation states of Terra in the interstellar wars period would have started their existance with this mind set. The assumption that Homo Sapiens was better than the Homo Vlandisis or the other cavemen decended was a prime motivator of the times, and the attitude survives into current day times on these Terran colonies.
What the current day leaders do with this attitude is up to the ref to determine, but it would take extreme text book revisionist policies to eliminate this from the public's store of accepted facts.
So in my view, the Species chavanusim exhibited by most of the population of the interstellar wars period colonies would continue to be a force in politics.
What the propaganda machine would say is one thing, but no educated Terran would believe it. Gene comparisons would show that the Vilani were the same species as the Terrans. The difference would be at the subspecies level: Homo sapiens sapiens vs. Homo sapiens vlandensis.
Of course, that leaves all the uneducated Terrans.
Hans
The Vilani would go crazy trying to deal with all the different nationalities on Terra since they only had the Vilani.... Also can we move this to the OTU forum?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
A closer analogue would be the CCP and the PRC.
The CCP need to retain legitimacy in the eyes of the electorate as to their fitness to govern, and are busy building up their regional economies and establishing infrastructures.
From that economic renaissance, comes their capability to build up their armed forces.
The CCP need to retain legitimacy in the eyes of the electorate as to their fitness to govern, and are busy building up their regional economies and establishing infrastructures.
From that economic renaissance, comes their capability to build up their armed forces.
In some ways I feel that much of the Solomani's racial... Distrust (I tone it down anyway, so it is distrust, instead of a comical "humie beter den ju") is justified.
The Aslan often do send the Ihatei to conquer new land for themselves, sometimes that land being human-dominated before hand.
The Vargr (rare in Confederation Space, but worth a mention) indeed are related to dogs, and their space is fractured and rife with piracy.
The hivers are...hivers. I'd be creeped out, if not off-put by a large, walking starfish with a language i can't hope tounderstand, nor are physically capable of understanding without computer aid.
And the smaller minor races everywhere, their the Indians to the Terrain Settlers cowboy. Oft misunderstood, but still intelligent and deserving to be known. This "Cowboy-Indian" analogy is even stronger if the race is not capable of spaceflight.
I have the issue of nonhuman rights be a bit fluid. Some places don't care what they are, some places are a bit more "selective" as to what can be a citizen in their government. Most places have immigration for nonhumans be stringent, but after that somewhat less harsh.
Other then that, I keep a lot of the OTU SC. I like the interesting fact that its the one place that is a real democracy in the setting (that has been standing for more then 20 years). Play that against the 3I being much more tolerant, but its autocracy come and be a thing for the people in the SC to dislike.
The Aslan often do send the Ihatei to conquer new land for themselves, sometimes that land being human-dominated before hand.
The Vargr (rare in Confederation Space, but worth a mention) indeed are related to dogs, and their space is fractured and rife with piracy.
The hivers are...hivers. I'd be creeped out, if not off-put by a large, walking starfish with a language i can't hope tounderstand, nor are physically capable of understanding without computer aid.
And the smaller minor races everywhere, their the Indians to the Terrain Settlers cowboy. Oft misunderstood, but still intelligent and deserving to be known. This "Cowboy-Indian" analogy is even stronger if the race is not capable of spaceflight.
I have the issue of nonhuman rights be a bit fluid. Some places don't care what they are, some places are a bit more "selective" as to what can be a citizen in their government. Most places have immigration for nonhumans be stringent, but after that somewhat less harsh.
Other then that, I keep a lot of the OTU SC. I like the interesting fact that its the one place that is a real democracy in the setting (that has been standing for more then 20 years). Play that against the 3I being much more tolerant, but its autocracy come and be a thing for the people in the SC to dislike.
