Ok, I have to say that I really love this idea. I may have to steal it in some way...
D.
The Solomani, not just bad guys anymore
- Thread starter Murph
- Start date
Ok, I have to say that I really love this idea. I may have to steal it in some way...
D.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The Vilani have different nationalities too. Just like they will have different towns, cities and football teams...
Humans are tribal creatures, even when a rigid caste system is in place different rivalries express themselves.
Vilani megacorporations and castes have slightly different cultural values.
True, but they are more racially homogenious than Terran humans with a very static/rigid culture.
Ackehece
SOC-13
Reading all this and realizing that the timeline is moving ahead in T5
few questions:
1902
this is the final recovery from the virus period
this allows for a serious rewrite of the Solomani experience.
Robert?
Marc?
Guess we need to wait for sourcebooks: Collapse, False Spring, and Galaxaid.
do we know who is working on these books?
few questions:
1902
this is the final recovery from the virus period
- tech advance?
- governmental change?
- social change?
this allows for a serious rewrite of the Solomani experience.
Robert?
Marc?
Guess we need to wait for sourcebooks: Collapse, False Spring, and Galaxaid.
do we know who is working on these books?
Yes, but to make it make sense, there are a few things that must be addressed. Solomani history is written somewhat to 1248, detailed in the 1248 books:
Prior to the Rim being hit by Virus, secessionist movements become very vocal. Culminating in the formation of a new Terran Commonwealth centered on Terra. They are so moderate or non-Movement, the Vegans make peace and join up with them to fight the Confederation. The Confederation continues making gains in Old Expanses and then starts fighting taking on the Hivers directly. That will not end well...
Virus hits. The Vegans go under, The Commonwealth and Confederation survive for quite a while. The Solomani Confederation is effectively destroyed in 1138 by the Supermen, survivors of the Gene Wars from the IW period who bred true thru the miilenia. The took over Home, and eliminate the entire top Party Leadership in one stroke, also took over many other worlds. The Confederation breaks up and succumbs to Virus much faster, but yet recovers much faster. The Commonwealth keeps shrinking until it is down to about three worlds. The survivors of the Solomani Confederation set up shop in Neworld Sector, form an empire of about 50-60 worlds. They are so hardline on the Hypothesis, they feel that the old guard conservatives were to nice to non-Solomani....
In the 1160's the Hivers are just starting to recover. They, umm, manipulate Virus somehow into attacking the new Solomani Empire. The empire collapses until 1200 or so.
Then the big reveal...By 1200, the Reformation Coalition was created by the Hivers as a test for one solution to the Human Problem. The other solution to the Human Problem is what they are doing to the Solomani Imperium. The Imperium is expanding (14 subsectors in Neworld) just about ready to break out again, even with Hiver interferrence. The Hivers are telling others (non-Solomani) that the Solomani Imperium are slavering genocidal monsters, when the Imperium is merely a slavering military power. Whenever possible, the Hivers are secretly destroying lone Imperium military vessels with overwhelming firepower, then blaming it on Virus. This is forcing the Imperium to annex worlds too quickly and the Hivers predict that the Solomani Imperium will collapse under its own weight some decades from the present (1248).
Don't believe it, get the 1248 books.
Then the big reveal...By 1200, the Reformation Coalition was created by the Hivers as a test for one solution to the Human Problem. The other solution to the Human Problem is what they are doing to the Solomani Imperium. The Imperium is expanding (14 subsectors in Neworld) just about ready to break out again, even with Hiver interferrence. The Hivers are telling others (non-Solomani) that the Solomani Imperium are slavering genocidal monsters, when the Imperium is merely a slavering military power. Whenever possible, the Hivers are secretly destroying lone Imperium military vessels with overwhelming firepower, then blaming it on Virus. This is forcing the Imperium to annex worlds too quickly and the Hivers predict that the Solomani Imperium will collapse under its own weight some decades from the present (1248).
Don't believe it, get the 1248 books.
lostscout5
SOC-12
I thought the 1248 books weren't cannon? Or only semi cannon. Is that a thing ?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I always thought the Confederation was the CoDominium.
Agreed. I'd never thought of that before. So how might the Confederation morph into the "Imperium of Man/Second Imperium" distinct from the 3I and its successors?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Remembered, it was kicked off Terra, and Wolfe became Secretary General.
There never will be an actual Emperor, and an eight year term or ten year term can easily be the same as an alternate Consulship or Dual Monarchy, without naming it as such. That is, if that's the timeline you want.
At the moment, it really is the CoDominium, with a rowdy factious Grand Senate, kept in check by the military, SolSec and the bureaucracy.
There never will be an actual Emperor, and an eight year term or ten year term can easily be the same as an alternate Consulship or Dual Monarchy, without naming it as such. That is, if that's the timeline you want.
At the moment, it really is the CoDominium, with a rowdy factious Grand Senate, kept in check by the military, SolSec and the bureaucracy.
My understanding is that it is canon. It is included in the T5.09 rules in the Important Eras of History chart on pg. 17 of the new rulebook as The New New Era with the year 1248. The traditional New Era is listed as a separate entry The New Era with the year 1200. The issue is that many people dislike it. Almost as much as they dislike Virus or the Rebellion in the first place.I thought the 1248 books weren't cannon? Or only semi cannon. Is that a thing ?
If you were replying to me...
The Second Imperium of The Mote in God's Eye is directly descended from the CoDominium of Pournelle's earlier works, by way of an Empire of Man* that succeeded the CoDominium and an intervening Fall between the two empires.
Thus I was inquiring as to how the Solomani Confederation might go the way of the CoDominium in a manner that would be distinct from (and kept separate from) the 3I->4I polity arc.
*I may have the respective titles wrong; I haven't checked Mote.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Outside of some vague details, I've never really been interested in the events that lead up to the Fourth Imperium.
Pournelle's Future History has already come to fruition when the Terrans took over the First Imperium, and the Third Imperium picked up the pieces, even if the cause of the collapse is supposedly financial.
The Confederation is the CoDominium, but on a larger scale. There's a single unified government, but infested with factions, mostly interested in their personal interests, and then that of their constituents.
The fact that the Navy can only build capital ships, and is forced to make up the difference with what we used to call Adventure class ships, is probably to force them to build these ships at local shipyards.
They have strong Home Guard paramilitary units, which they probably will use against their neighbours, much like the rise of nationalism and arms race back on Earth.
Then you have this Supermen coup.
So how will Confederation evolve to the First Empire between now and then? It doesn't really have to.
Like that cat, it can be both states at the same time.l
Pournelle's Future History has already come to fruition when the Terrans took over the First Imperium, and the Third Imperium picked up the pieces, even if the cause of the collapse is supposedly financial.
The Confederation is the CoDominium, but on a larger scale. There's a single unified government, but infested with factions, mostly interested in their personal interests, and then that of their constituents.
The fact that the Navy can only build capital ships, and is forced to make up the difference with what we used to call Adventure class ships, is probably to force them to build these ships at local shipyards.
They have strong Home Guard paramilitary units, which they probably will use against their neighbours, much like the rise of nationalism and arms race back on Earth.
Then you have this Supermen coup.
So how will Confederation evolve to the First Empire between now and then? It doesn't really have to.
Like that cat, it can be both states at the same time.l
I'm not insisting that such a development is inevitable. I'm asking how such a development might be possible.
By 1248, there are two polities that make up what used to be the Solomani Confederation. Neither is involved with the Fourth Imperium or the formation of that polity. Other than an embassy they are really too far away in this setting to interac. For either to get to anything that looks the Co-dominion, it has to resolve its current situations.
The Solomani Imperium
Also known as the Second Rule of Man (SRoM). It is a heavily militaristic state, following the more severe/extreme ideals of the the Solomani Movement short of outright slavery and/or genocide. They occupy 14 subsectors in Neworld Sector and about 2 subsectors worth in Aldeberan. The are covertly opposed by the Hivers. The Hivers are spreading disinformation that the SRoM are overtly genocidal. The SRoM is not overtly or covertly, but noone believes them. The Hivers are covertly destroying SRoM military assets whenever possible, blaming it o Virus or other parties. So, finally, Hivers vs. Solomani. Who will win?
The Terran Commonwealth
Occupying 9 subsectors centered on Terra, The TC is more a Confederation of Confederations. Their Movement policies, if any are left, are assumed to be very mild as the non-Human Vegans are willing participants. They seem to get along with everyone except the SRoM who want them to surrender Terra (no surprise). Their biggest problem seems to be acceptance of Cyms (as civilized Virus is called) which is causing friction the Freedom League (former Reformation Coalition), as the FL/RC have accepted them.
SRoM looks like a decent candidate for "First Empire analog", depending on if they can hold out against the
