Vote Your Canon #4: Jump Torpedos (consensus: NOT)

[Condottiere]

Not really, except in the meta sense.

One has the ten tonne jump drive and five tonnes of fuel, the other the balance fifteen tonnes of fuel.

 

[Grav_Moped]

CT doesn't require a navigation skill roll to jump.

True, but it requires a navigator with skill-1 (except for small ships).
One can suppose that the roll exists in theory but is impossible to fail with skill-1.

 

[Spinward Flow]

CT doesn't require a navigation skill roll to jump. MT does (IE, p 92), TNE does (TNE 225). T4 appears not to. T5 does.

True, but it requires a navigator with skill-1 (except for small ships).
One can suppose that the roll exists in theory but is impossible to fail with skill-1.

I look at it from a slightly different perspective with regards to the "must have a navigator if over 200 tons" in CT. It basically comes down to a question of watch rotations, which the CT rules rather explicitly don't much about with.

If you've got a 1 man crewed ship, such as a Scout/Courier, pretty much all of the standing watch rotations belong to that one lone crew member, meaning that you're on call 24/7 (or whatever the local timekeeping standard is) simply because there's no one else available to relieve you. But 100 ton starships are really pretty small, all things considered (you can park 2+ of them on a football pitch if you angle them right, TETRIS style), so it makes some sense to have a loophole for smaller ships to run minimally manned with what amounts to a skeleton crew. Most of the maintenance and upkeep for the ship is going to be the responsibility of starship support staff, rather than onboard crew members in order to make it work.

Once you pass a particular size threshold, that assumption starts breaking down and you need to have a more continuous manning coverage standing watches while the ship isn't berthed. For interplanetary maneuvers, this could take days (and if it takes more than 7 days, a micro jump is more efficient in a lot of cases), during which continuous manning to monitor systems will probably be required.

So the rules got written in such a way as to require a navigator in addition to the pilot so that the navigator could stand watch rotations on the bridge giving the pilot some respite and downtime. If anything happens, the navigator summons the pilot to the bridge and matters proceed from there.

I figure this is also the reason why LBB5.80 stipulates a minimum of 2 navigators for its Command crew section requirements so as to be able to stand multiple watch rotations so as to enable continuous manning of bridge systems. It's not something explicitly laid out in the CT text, but it is something you can infer from reading between the lines.

Basically, the navigator role is there so you don't need 2+ pilots in order to stand watch rotations while the ship is not powered down in a starport berth somewhere. That's my interpretation anyway.

Although, CT being written in the late 70s/early 80s, I'm also sure that the requirement was structured the way it was for the iconic Sulu (pilot) plus Chekov (navigator) simultaneously on the bridge at their stations fantasy.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Although, CT being written in the late 70s/early 80s, I'm also sure that the requirement was structured the way it was for the iconic Sulu (pilot) plus Chekov (navigator) simultaneously on the bridge at their stations fantasy.

IMO, it's so the Type S can be piloted by a single person without triggering the -1DM for dual-roled crew.

 

[Spinward Flow]

IMO, it's so the Type S can be piloted by a single person without triggering the -1DM for dual-roled crew.

To be fair, you don't need a navigator on a 200 ton Free Trader/Far Trader either and those are multi-person crews.
In LBB2 design paradigms, it's only in the 201+ ton range (which is effectively 400 tons) that a navigator becomes a requirement.

In point of fact, you need to have a medic aboard (200 tons) before you need a navigator (over 200 tons).

 

[Vargr Breath]

To be fair, you don't need a navigator on a 200 ton Free Trader/Far Trader either and those are multi-person crews.
In LBB2 design paradigms, it's only in the 201+ ton range (which is effectively 400 tons) that a navigator becomes a requirement.

In point of fact, you need to have a medic aboard (200 tons) before you need a navigator (over 200 tons).

I'm sure the medic is to take care of the low passage passengers. But I would think any ship carrying passengers should also have a Pilot-1 with Nav.-1 and a navigator at least skill-1 and Pilot-1 for safety reasons.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I'm sure the medic is to take care of the low passage passengers.

Oh they are ... in the case of 200 ton Free Traders and Far Traders. The presence of passengers ALSO requires a medic aboard.

But if you took a 200 ton Free Trader and ripped out all of the passenger staterooms and low berths, turning the ship into a CARGO ONLY starship with no passenger services of any kind whatsoever ... you would still be required to have a medic aboard (200 tons minimum) and not required to have a navigator (over 200 tons).

This is why I say that a medic is required before a navigator.
For LBB5.80 compliant terminology for USP coding, think of it like this:

• Craft with hull size: 0+ require a pilot.
• Craft with hull size: 2+ require a medic.
• Craft with hull size: 3+ require a navigator.

You need a pilot before you need a medic.
You need a medic before you need a navigator.

Engineers, Stewards and Gunners have different requirements that are not directly tied to hull sizes.

 

[Vargr Breath]

Oh they are ... in the case of 200 ton Free Traders and Far Traders. The presence of passengers ALSO requires a medic aboard.

But if you took a 200 ton Free Trader and ripped out all of the passenger staterooms and low berths, turning the ship into a CARGO ONLY starship with no passenger services of any kind whatsoever ... you would still be required to have a medic aboard (200 tons minimum) and not required to have a navigator (over 200 tons).

This is why I say that a medic is required before a navigator.
For LBB5.80 compliant terminology for USP coding, think of it like this:

• Craft with hull size: 0+ require a pilot.
• Craft with hull size: 2+ require a medic.
• Craft with hull size: 3+ require a navigator.

You need a pilot before you need a medic.
You need a medic before you need a navigator.

Engineers, Stewards and Gunners have different requirements that are not directly tied to hull sizes.

I think I would go with the caveat, any 200-ton ship or larger then 200-tons, carrying passengers must have a medic aboard. But not everything like that could be covered in the LLBs so this would be a house rule.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I think I would go with the caveat, any 200-ton ship or larger then 200-tons, carrying passengers must have a medic aboard. But not everything like that could be covered in the LLBs so this would be a house rule.

LBB2 stipulates ships of 200 tons or more require a medic and also that 1 medic is required per 120 passengers.

So ...

• A 100 ton ship with no passengers requires no medic.
• A 100 ton ship with 120 passengers requires 1 medic (could be 120 low berths for example so as to fit into 100 tons).
• A 200 ton ship with no passengers requires 1 medic.
• A 200 ton ship with 120 passengers requires 1 medic.
• A 200 ton ship with 121 passengers requires 2 medics.

... and so on and so forth.

Note that technically speaking in order for a 100 ton Type-S Scout/Courier to offer (commercial, as opposed to military/paramilitary) passenger service, a medic must be onboard. That will typically bump up the minimum crew from 1 to 2 in most cases. That's when the Pilot-2/Gunner-2 and Steward-1/Medic-2 combo team starts becoming important, so that you can transport 2 high passengers on your scout ship (or 3 if you convert the air/raft berth into another stateroom, presumably with a big observation window).

 

[infojunky]

Hum… I see TNE has only been mentionEd once. Sub 100 ton jump craft are part of its setting. Minimum size was based on minimum size of Jump drive. As I recall it is about two cubic meters.

 

[Deldarius]

Without even playing with math to try and justify a design, I find the idea itself does not fit in with the 3I. I would not want to trust any sensitive information to be carried by such a device. On a misjump, it could end up behind enemy lines or (worse) end up in some back water planet and create a V'GER type incident sometime down the road. Either one will end up biting you in the bass.

This is why there is an X-boat system and fleets of couriers.

 

[Condottiere]

1. You need a hundred tonnes of volume in order to punch open the rabbit hole, not necessarily a hundred tonne starship.

2. Minimum is a default ten tonne jump drive, ten tonnes of dedicated fuel, power, and a bridge.

3. Assumedly, you could fit that in a thirty to forty tonne hull.

4. The balance could be cargo pods.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Without even playing with math to try and justify a design, I find the idea itself does not fit in with the 3I. I would not want to trust any sensitive information to be carried by such a device. On a misjump, it could end up behind enemy lines or (worse) end up in some back water planet and create a V'GER type incident sometime down the road. Either one will end up biting you in the bass.

This is why there is an X-boat system and fleets of couriers.

It seems to me that the ones in Leviathan were mostly meant as distress beacons.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Jump torpedos? Every time I mentioned Jump fighters I get shouted down !!

Well, jump torps come from the proto Traveller era, where you can essentially do anything you want. It's the version of the game I liked most; i.e. the OTU is there if you need to access it for your gaming session, but is essentially optional. For the rules, I don't see why not. For the background? Maybe they were a tech demonstrator ordered by the emperor.

And jump capable fighters or small craft in general, again to me, are a YTU and could shared with other fans' TUs. I'm not a big Star Wars' fan, but I do believe all but regular Imperial TIE fighters are capable of hyperspace travel; i.e. "jump fighters".

 

[Condottiere]

That had to do with the Tarkin Doctrine, as well as cost cutting.

Apparently, there was a black budget project that was sucking up all the funding.

 

[aramis]

The CT crew rules require a navigator "over 200 tons" while medic is "200 tons or more"

A 200 tonner requires a medic no matter whether it's got passengers or not. It does not require a navigator... but CT also assumes use of cassettes for jump courses.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Apparently, there was a black budget project that was sucking up all the funding.

Which went bust.
TWICE.

 

[Deldarius]

It seems to me that the ones in Leviathan were mostly meant as distress beacons.

I can buy that, sorta. That is an awfully big beacon though. However, I can see a comsat or other sensor package.


Speaking of jump cassettes, are ships equipped with actual cassette burners or are we pushing the files through the data bus via Generate?


In cases where a Generate Program is not available, starports have single-use flight plans (in self-erasing cassettes) available for all worlds within jump range for Cr10,000 per jump number. [1]

 

[Grav_Moped]

The CT crew rules require a navigator "over 200 tons" while medic is "200 tons or more"
...

It does not require a navigator... but CT also assumes use of cassettes for jump courses.

And, notably, it doesn't require the navigator's "work product" to be "tested" with a task roll.
The enginers' work? Sure. And being short-handed there can be catastrophic. Navigators? /shrug/

 

[Grav_Moped]

I can buy that, sorta. That is an awfully big beacon though. However, I can see a comsat or other sensor package.

The idea is to bounce it back to a friendly star system (or at least one with friendly traffic) where it just sits at 100D (because it can't maneuver or anything) and yells for help.

Late '70s, if you're in the hex you're at the world because writers have no sense of scale, and it's a cool idea if you don't overthink it.

In canon (Leviathan) they aren't terribly large. If built as described, scaled down from the drive potential table in LBB2 '77, they start at just under 6 tons for J-1, 7 for J-2, about 10 for J-3. J-6 is ship's-boat sized. (Did the math in my head, it's in the ballpark anyhow.)

Speaking of jump cassettes, are ships equipped with actual cassette burners or are we pushing the files through the data bus via Generate?


In cases where a Generate Program is not available, starports have single-use flight plans (in self-erasing cassettes) available for all worlds within jump range for Cr10,000 per jump number. [1]

Generate supercedes the tapes.