Why?

[MJD]

Because I wasted 30 minutes trying to frame a reply that explained how offensive I found the 'policies' topic. I don't have that kind of time to waste.

If you wish to make constructive recommendations to QLI or to me, and you wish to do so on our forum, then please do so in a manner that is not outright rude and offensive to the people you wish to influence.

 

[Morte]

Martin, I'm very sorry.

I did not mean that thread to be offensive at all, I meant it as constructive criticism. The use of the word "policies" was tongue in cheek, which is why I put it in quotes. [I mean, who am I to have policies about what QLI prints, how could I say it seriously?]

I stand by all the points I made, and I think they're all valid, but I did not intend to be rude or offensive at all.

 

[MJD]

You'd be surprised how many people DO think they can dictate policy to us. Generally people who use phrases like 'pious guff' are being high-handed and arrogant.

I prefer to ignore that kind of thing, like I ignored the death threats over GURPS Traveller or the people who ordered me not to write for GT.

But when it's on our own forum where I can stop it, well then...

Had those points been made in a more civil way, I would agree with some of them, yes. Though I defy to you show me how to write an adventure in 25,000 words without making some pretty broad assumptions.

And as for detailing all the ****ing worlds, well then. I tried that once...

 

[Spinward Scout]

Death threats over GURPS Traveller? You've got to be kidding. I know some gamers live in fantasy worlds, but that is just insane. I seriously hope you turned them in. I doubt their lives are going to be very harmonious with the rest of humanity. I feel very sorry to be part of the gaming world after reading that.

Scout

 

[flykiller]

like I ignored the death threats over GURPS Traveller

death threats over GURPS?

well, you _are_ appealing to a clientele with a lot of time on its hands, and which uses that time to indulge in fantasies ....

for what my opinion's worth, I think you're doing a good job.

 

[eclipse]

Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />like I ignored the death threats over GURPS Traveller

death threats over GURPS?

well, you _are_ appealing to a clientele with a lot of time on its hands, and which uses that time to indulge in fantasies ....

for what my opinion's worth, I think you're doing a good job. </font>[/QUOTE]Doug Berry tells a tale about a 5+ page letter he received after GT: Ground Forces came out.
Single spaced, all in caps, explaining in detail how he had got the Imperial Marines completely wrong and didn't deserve to spell Traveller with two Ls.

Personally, I really like the Traveller material that Martin, and Doug, have published.

 

[Malenfant]

I wish I could remember where i saw that "open letter" published on the net written by some former "keeper of Traveller lore" or somesuch.
He wrote it when TNE came out, and it was all melodrama and angst and whining about how TNE had actually ruined his life and he'd never be the same or somesuch drivel. And it was for real.

You'd be amazed at the stuff that people write when it comes to Traveller... it's quite bonkers sometimes.

 

[robject]

You're referring to Mike Metlay's tirade, perhaps?

http://winterwar.prairienet.org/dmckinne/metlay.txt

Hmm, maybe not. Well, there's also the "Whither Traveller" file by Nilsen:

http://www.42north.org/mjm/rpg/trav/Whither.html

...which is probably also not what you were looking for...

 

[MJD]

Suffice to say that I've seen enough of this stuff to be a bit touchy. I do accept that Morte didn't intend to offend, though the delivery could have been a little more sensitive.

But yeah, death threats, orders to desist; that kind of thing.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by robject:
You're referring to Mike Metlay's tirade, perhaps?

http://winterwar.prairienet.org/dmckinne/metlay.txt

That's the one. Thanks! it's still worth a good hyuk

 

[flykiller]

http://www.42north.org/mjm/rpg/trav/Whither.html

hmm. never would have thought of TNE as being a means to "break through the barriers to see life itself for the first time."

personally I see (not from any personal experience) the disappointment of putting in ten years of game work as part of an intense coherent community, and then suddenly having to choose between staying with the community or doing what you enjoy. now that would be irritating.

but, me, all I have is books 1-6 and a few supplements and adventures. there's no way I can exhaust the possibilities they (and my imagination) provide. megatraveller, TNE, T20, GURPS, 'sall just more stuff I'll never be able to get to. I just want to play.

 

[Psion]

You're referring to Mike Metlay's tirade, perhaps?

http://winterwar.prairienet.org/dmckinne/metlay.txt

Though I don't, perhaps, carry the depth of emotion that he does, I perfectly empathize with his points.

And reading Nilsen's examination and disagreeing with about 2/3 of it speaks volumes about why post-MT developments were so disappointing to me.

 

[jasper]

You'd be amazed at the stuff that people write (cut)... it's quite bonkers sometimes.

That applies to anybody and anything.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robject:
You're referring to Mike Metlay's tirade, perhaps?

http://winterwar.prairienet.org/dmckinne/metlay.txt

That's the one. Thanks! it's still worth a good hyuk </font>[/QUOTE]Mike Metlay's courteous and thoughtful goodbye to Traveller? "Melodrama, angst, and whining about how TNE had actually ruined his life and he'd never be the same or some such drivel"? What utter nonsense, Constantine.

Traveller was Mike's hobby. People invest part of themselves in their hobbies. That's the nature of hobbies. And suddenly Mike felt that his hobby wasn't fun any more. So he did the sensible thing and quit investing more of himself in something that he felt wouldn't be worth the effort.

I know just what Mike felt, because Traveller is my hobby too and I didn't like TNE any more than Mike did. Personally didn't make the same choice as Mike. I just went back to the Classic Era and gamed on there, ignoring the New Era and still having fun. I don't really understand why Mike felt that he couldn't do the same, but he didn't. I respect that. And I respect that he said goodbye to the rest of us instead of just going MIA.

"Melodrama, angst, and whining' forsooth!!


Hans

 

[Malenfant]

Sorry, I think it's incredibly melodramatic and whiny (even if on reading it again it wasn't quite as bad as I recalled it was). It's a bloody game, not a way of life. It's all "I, the lone wanderer and keeper of the flame, shall hold it high and proud in the face of this evil that threatens all" crap.

He could just as easily have said "sorry I don't like TNE, I'm leaving you guys to it" in about 2000 less words and made himself look less ridiculous.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Sorry, I think it's incredibly melodramatic and whiny (even if on reading it again it wasn't quite as bad as I recalled it was). It's a bloody game, not a way of life. It's all "I, the lone wanderer and keeper of the flame, shall hold it high and proud in the face of this evil that threatens all" crap.

He could just as easily have said "sorry I don't like TNE, I'm leaving you guys to it" in about 2000 less words and made himself look less ridiculous.

Well, I'm sure Mike would be devastated to know that you thought he looked ridiculous.

Then again, maybe he wouldn't.


Hans

 

[vutpakdi]

Well, quite a few people take some things a little too seriously. What makes things interesting is that what one person takes seriously enough to rant, rave, and otherwise carry on about is what another doesn't care about in the slightest. The former thinks that the latter is an idiot for not caring, and the latter thinks that the former is ridiculous. Different subject, positions get reversed.

So, best to just relax a little.

Ron

 

[Malenfant]

I don't particularly care what he thinks. I'm just using his letter as the archetypal "oh my god TNE is the end of my world and I hate you for doing it" rant.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
I don't particularly care what he thinks. I'm just using his letter as the archetypal "oh my god TNE is the end of my world and I hate you for doing it" rant.

And I just pointed out that it's nothing of the sort. He doesn't say that it's the end of his world and he most certainly does not say that he hates the people who wrote Survival Margin. So you're 0 for 2 there, friend.


Hans

 

[Malenfant]

He says it himself - he hates the setting. He hates that his nice shiny Imperium has become "a grey paint smear with a big black blotch in the middle of it". He harps on about how the formerly intelligent CT universe has become a place scrabbled over by savages and man-eating computers. (as if it's not possible to have intelligent adventures in the TNE universe). He claims that it wasn't necessary to destroy CT (as if he knows what's best for the game).

And while he appreciates at least that Survival Margin was well written, he is "saddened by the fact that the emotions [DN] evoked were those of revulsion, disgust, and yes, even hatred.". All this over a goddamned game?!

The Traveller community has moved on without him and has not imploded in on itself just because he wasn't here. As for melodrama, anyone starting and signing off a message the way he did has got to be going for that sort of thing. So he didn't like the way it was going? To use his own words - "Big fat hairy goddamn deal".

It's people like him that probably did a fair bit to hamstring TNE before it even started. I'd bet that they were whinging about it being the end of everything they loved so much that they probably put off people who were just coming into Traveller. (Never mind all the idiots that claim they know what Dave Nilsen was thinking, or who ascribe false motivations to him when they don't have a clue, or who give out bloody death threats to people like Martin who were involved in TNE - or any other version of Traveller for that matter).

Jeez, I hated WW's Mage Revised when it came out. I really didn't like what it did to the game that I loved. But did I go round every newsgroup I could proclaiming that it was the devil's own work and the people responsible should be nailed to a wall for such an abomination? Did I send death threats or severed bunny heads to the authors? No, I just said "well, this ain't for me, have fun with it" and moved on.

But the way some people have gone on about TNE or GT or any other version of Trav has been way beyond the pale, and that's what I think is ridiculous.

Frankly, I think if that's their attitude then the community is much better off without them. It's a game, for crying out loud, not a personal affront. If you don't agree with that, Hans, then fine - I don't see it the way you do, but I think I'm 2 for 2 there.