AHL deckplans officially retconned?

[McPerth]

'Ion' cannon TL12 - no similar weapon system exists in the OTU or in T5; and once again this weapon system has nothing to do with ions.

Tachyon cannon TL14 - WTF?

Jumpbreaker missile warhead - TL13

All presented in the book as standard components with no contra-indication for the OTU.

Then there are the ridiculous dogfighting rules...

See that those weapons may well not be for OTU.

I don't know about MgT 2Ed, but 1Ed was, in my eyes, the most setting free editioin I know about (I don't know about T5, T20, GT nor HT) since CT appeared (previous to 3I), so they may well want to have non-OTU possibilities (as the variant drives appeared in CB page 109).

If so, IMHO they are legitimately free to do it, with all those gadgets and variants simply ignored by those of us taht want to play in OTU (or OTU like universe).

 

[Celestial]

See that those weapons may well not be for OTU.

I don't know about MgT 2Ed, but 1Ed was, in my eyes, the most setting free editioin I know about (I don't know about T5, T20, GT nor HT) since CT appeared (previous to 3I), so they may well want to have non-OTU possibilities (as the variant drives appeared in CB page 109).

If so, IMHO they are legitimately free to do it, with all those gadgets and variants simply ignored by those of us taht want to play in OTU (or OTU like universe).

I'm at work and don't have the book readily in front of me, but IIRC, one of the first pages in the Mongoose Traveller Second Edition core rulebook specifically states that the game is meant to be a generic science-fiction role-playing game, and meant to be used for any science-fiction setting. So, I suspect that what you said is accurate. A lot of what is introduced in High Guard and other books are not specific to the Third Imperium setting, and indeed are not meant for it.

Honestly, as I've said before on here, I'm new to Traveller. Mongoose Traveller Second Edition is where I bought in, and it was sold to me as a generic science-fiction RPG. I knew of the Third Imperium setting, but was under the impression it was just one of the two major Traveller settings, with 2300 A.D. being the other. Like Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms for Dungeons & Dragons, but yet a lot of people play it using their own setting.

 

[mike wightman]

See that those weapons may well not be for OTU.

I don't know about MgT 2Ed, but 1Ed was, in my eyes, the most setting free editioin I know about (I don't know about T5, T20, GT nor HT) since CT appeared (previous to 3I), so they may well want to have non-OTU possibilities (as the variant drives appeared in CB page 109).

If so, IMHO they are legitimately free to do it, with all those gadgets and variants simply ignored by those of us taht want to play in OTU (or OTU like universe).

The second section in the introduction is all about how this is the supplement for the Third Imperium Navy.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Like Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms for Dungeons & Dragons, but yet a lot of people play it using their own setting.

Excellent analogy - that is exactly how we view it.

The second section in the introduction is all about how this is the supplement for the Third Imperium Navy.

With respect, no it doesn't. That section explains what the Imperial Navy is. The section before specifically states that the book contains, quote 'technologies seen in science fiction settings beyond the Third Imperium.'

From the start, we have been at pains to point out that Traveller <> Third Imperium/3I. It can be played that way (I play pretty much exclusively in the 3I myself, usually lurking somewhere around the Marches/Reach area), but we absolutely do not want to shut out those who have their own universes which will deviate from the 3I in varying degrees.

Basically, if you want your ships crewed by space monkeys with frickin' laser beams, the books need to be able to handle that.

There are enough universes for everyone to have a good time!

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

I suspected it for a while, but if so it does not respect even the external shape of the Azhanti class.

See that the maps were published (to my kowledge) trice: in the AHL game proper, in the Arrival Vengeance MT suplement and (partially, not all the maps) in the Challenge #42, with the amber zone Ressearch Station Beta, pages 50-51.

Being so (relatively) accesible, would MgT have had any IP issue to reproduce them if they'd chosen to keep the AHL as they have always been?

they already have, in the MgT fighting ships book, their is a AHL.....with the "towe block" deckplans.


#just saying.

 

[mike wightman]

With respect, no it doesn't. That section explains what the Imperial Navy is.

With all due respect, yes it does, and continues onto page three talking about Naval Operations in the Third Imperium. It becomes generic again with the ship definitions section on page four.

The section before specifically states that the book contains, quote 'technologies seen in science fiction settings beyond the Third Imperium.'

There is nothing apart from one side bar in the spinals section to suggest that any of the components are prohibited in the OTU setting.

From the start, we have been at pains to point out that Traveller <> Third Imperium/3I. It can be played that way (I play pretty much exclusively in the 3I myself, usually lurking somewhere around the Marches/Reach area), but we absolutely do not want to shut out those who have their own universes which will deviate from the 3I in varying degrees.

Then why open the book with this is how things are done in the Third Imperium - why not keep it generic until later, for example where you get to the ships and describe how things work in the Third Imperium?

Basically, if you want your ships crewed by space monkeys with frickin' laser beams, the books need to be able to handle that.

Which it does admirably. Overall it is a really good book.

There are enough universes for everyone to have a good time!

I agree with you completely.

And I want to state again that I think that overall it is a really good book, packed with options.

 

[whartung]

Yea, it's the Frontier cruiser.

These are terrible. I mean, just awful.

Shapes with boxes. No scale. Lots of cut and paste blobs, vast swaths of empty space.

San Serif lists of numbers.

Wow. Amazing.

I'm not saying I could do any better, but this is not my business. The random posts we have here on COTI are far better.

And then I think back to the original AHL…which was just, really, breath taking.

Sad panda.

 

[Swiftbrook]

Quite legal:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpgs/traveller-1/high-guard.html

About half-way down: "2D Deckplans" link

Thanks!

Well, I guess I’m just an idiot. I had this misguided thinking that over time, and with the improvements in technology, things like deckplans would get better. I see all the great work on this site done by fans and I figured that professional published drawings must be, well professional. These plans just look childish, like they were thrown together in ten minutes each. Basic lines, copy and paste shapes, and done. And they want $50 for it as well.

As for their “Frontier Cruiser”, I don’t know what class it might represent, but it’s not the Azhanti High Lighting.

 

[Spartan159]

Thanks!

Well, I guess I’m just an idiot. I had this misguided thinking that over time, and with the improvements in technology, things like deckplans would get better. I see all the great work on this site done by fans and I figured that professional published drawings must be, well professional. These plans just look childish, like they were thrown together in ten minutes each. Basic lines, copy and paste shapes, and done. And they want $50 for it as well.

As for their “Frontier Cruiser”, I don’t know what class it might represent, but it’s not the Azhanti High Lighting.

Azhanti Low Thunder? :badger:

 

[Vargas]

I had this misguided thinking that over time, and with the improvements in technology, things like deckplans would get better. I see all the great work on this site done by fans and I figured that professional published drawings must be, well professional. These plans just look childish, like they were thrown together in ten minutes each. Basic lines, copy and paste shapes, and done.

I'm sorta on the same page. The old Supp 7 deckplans look better than what I see in MgT products most of the time.

 

[robject]

A couple of people on the Mongoose forums commented on them and the reply was that it is an official change and that they were always meant to be like that according to 'discussions'.

Give me their names, please.

 

[mike wightman]

They never give the actual names of these 'people high up in Traveller circles and in the know' - which is suspicious in itself.

 

[robject]

They've increased antimatter, then - MT introduced it at TL 17.

T5 has already bumped that upwards.

 

[robject]

They never give the actual names of these 'people high up in Traveller circles and in the know' - which is suspicious in itself.

No no, the "couple of people on the Mongoose forums" who reported this.

 

[robject]

...IIRC, one of the first pages in the Mongoose Traveller Second Edition core rulebook specifically states that the game is meant to be a generic science-fiction role-playing game, and meant to be used for any science-fiction setting.

That seems reasonable. Mongoose IS after all using Traveller as its house SF rules. Its core rulebook therefore doesn't include setting information.

 

[robject]

OK, "core book adding crap" is, I believe, accounted for in the Stated Purpose of the MgT2 Core Rules -- general SF, i.e. it's wider or more open than even the LBBs. This applies to all of their stuff except Third Imperium material...

...and I would suggest that some enterprising grognard could submit a three-page document that Mongoose could distribute as a freebie intro to the Third Imperium so new players and referees know how to limit themselves. No tachyons, no light sabers.

Now to the Azhanti High Lightning. Can't it have more than one deck arrangement?

 

[Spartan159]

I'm pretty sure a major change in a deck plan becomes a new class or at least a new subtype.

 

[Condottiere]

I don't think you can actually remodel the Azhanti in that way, due to it's Jenga construction.

 

[Nightwind1]

No no, the "couple of people on the Mongoose forums" who reported this.

Here's a quote from AndrewW on the Mongoose Traveller forum:
Re: High Guard is Here!

Quote

Postby AndrewW » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:35 pm

Asimovian wrote:
Quick question re Azhanti. Weren't the decks aligned pependicular to her main direction of thrust? I was away from Traveller for many years, so maybe I missed a new version or interpretation of the original design.



Sigtrygg wrote:
What on earth happened to the AHL deckplans???



Design decision based on discussion with various people involved in Traveller. The ship was never really meant to be a tail sitter the deck plans corrected this.

Well, this is the new version.

 

[DickNervous]

Now to the Azhanti High Lightning. Can't it have more than one deck arrangement?

That's why I said all they needed to do was call it "Azhanti High Lightning Mk II" and this kerfluffle would have been avoided.