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CT Only: Fixing the Type T Deck Plans?

Profile view in LBB3 '81, p. 20. No dimensions given, but I suppose you could use the Air/raft picture in the same image for reference.
8 tons = 112m3
In a 3m height space, that requires a floor area of 16.6 deck squares.
Call it 16 deck squares for convenience.
That's either 4x4 squares or 3x5 squares or 2x8 squares (take your pick).

And .... then I go check CT Striker p29-30 and find the TL=9 G-Carrier Grav APC.
Height: 2 m. Width: 5.6 m. Length: 10 m. Total volume: 112m3
So for deck squares you're looking at 10/1.5=6.7 deck squares long and 5.6/1.5=3.75 deck squares wide for a 2m high vehicle.

Fits just fine into the 4 squares wide form factor of a 30 ton Modular Cutter Module (hence why I think converting the Ship's Boat to a Modular Cutter would be an excellent choice!). Of course, I'm arrogant enough to think that my 20 ton 6G armored fighter plus externally towed 30 ton modular cutter module (at 2G for a single that can enter atmosphere) is an even better option than a "mere modular cutter" would be ... but then, what do I know about these things, eh? :rolleyes:
 
Profile view in LBB3 '81, p. 20. No dimensions given, but I suppose you could use the Air/raft picture in the same image for reference.
Quite, that is a typical GCarrier, not the only GCarrier.

"GCarrier" is not a specific model, or even a brand name, it's just the generic name for a type of vehicle, like say SUV.

If you want to stuff it into a 4.5 m cargo bay, choose a model that is less than 4.5 m wide?


Note that LBB3 is metric, so a GCarrier is 8 tonnes, not 8 Dton. That it requires a 8 Dt garage is presumably a holdover from LBB2'77, and can perhaps be rationalised as the garage needs a lot more space that an exact fit for the vehicle to allow access and maintenance, just like a regular car garage.
 
I've managed to turn the mid-section into a split-level atrocity to work around the bulge in the deck from the ship's boat berth. It works, but I hate it.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced I ought to shove the whole thing outside the hull and add about 1.5m depth worth of docking adapter/fairing under the lower deck on either side of the boat (in other words, just drop the boat 1.5m and fill in around it).
 
It works, but I hate it.
There's a reason for that. 😉
I'm becoming increasingly convinced I ought to shove the whole thing outside the hull and add about 1.5m depth worth of docking adapter/fairing under the lower deck on either side of the boat (in other words, just drop the boat 1.5m and fill in around it).
That would be my recommendation too.
Docking adapter/fairing, fuel and life support couplings, extendable manipulator arm(s) for the "last few meters" capture and control of docking procedures ... you know the drill.

Having a "through the ship from stem to stern" single deck is very much a superior option ... as would a Modular Cutter with a G-Carrier berthed within it and a smaller cargo bay as a result (you lose about 12 tons of cargo capacity in the exchange). Although, if you move the troop barracks and low berths into the Modular Cutter Module (5 staterooms plus 4 low berths plus 8 ton G-Carrier equals 30 tons!) you would actually offset the loss in cargo capacity sufficiently to be able to have a second Modular Cutter Module configured purely for cargo as a reserve option that the Modular Cutter could mobilize for transfers without needing to bring the entire ship along, increasing operational flexibility even more. Note that this "multiple modules" potential was the first thing that brought to mind my LSP Clipper and Five Sisters Clipper designs as commercial merchant/courier variants using the exact same form factor (400 ton needle/wedge hull) and standard drives, where the intent was to turn the basic idea into a profitable commerce ship. By contrast, my Patrol Corvette evolution was an attempt to "march down the technology curve" from TL=10+ into better drive performance as a policing/pirate hunter and customs enforcement ship (so more of a paramilitary rather than civilian evolution).

Of course, from a "where do the puzzle pieces go?" perspective, it makes the most sense for the cargo bay to be on the ventral lower deck (for easy loading/unloading while landed in a gravity well without requiring a crane infrastructure) and any subordinate craft to be on the dorsal upper deck "leeward" of any atmospheric entry forces. By segregating things that way, you don't need to go "through the small craft AND ship" to reach the cargo bay from the exterior.

The problem with doing that in deck plans is that you're then deviating further away from the 2D design aesthetic of the original artwork (making the result "less perfect" as a deck plan in harmony with the art). Depending on how much "fealty" you feel is constraining you towards the impulse of "Must. Match. Art!" will determine how much leeway you feel comfortable with giving yourself.

My philosophy is that what is detailed in LBB2.81 would definitely be a first draft version of the class, but that later iterations once operational experience is gained with the class in service could EASILY result in later updates and improvements and changes being made to the class (kind of like block changes in aerospace fighter designs over time). In other words, the LBB2.81 version could easily be a "centuries out of date" Block 1 version ... with later updates (Block 2+) and evolution of the design happening over time to improve the capabilities and make a "better ship" evolution after operational experience (and feedback) is gained from having the Block 1 in service.

Don't think of the Type-T information we've been given as the definitive "last word" on the subject in which Nothing Ever Changes EVER after the one and done. Instead, start thinking in terms of a "lineage" of starships, each iterating on the shortcomings of the previous generation and making subtle improvements around the basic form factor to yield an overall superior systems integration/update over time.

Think in terms of an evolving continuity ... rather than a static stasis ... and you'll be a lot happier with the results.



Or to put it another way ... :rolleyes:

Some people manage by the book.
Even though they don't know who wrote the book or even what book. 📙
 
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I think I've figured out how the Type T design came about.

It started with the specification in LBB2 '77, including the (later corrected) erroneous fuel tankage allotment.

The artist (William H. Keith) apparently actually drew a full set of deck plans -- which I think I've properly reconstructed in outline, if not in exact interior layout -- and drew the illustration based on those plans.

Then, the draftsman (Jordan Weisman) cropped, simplified, and rearranged the original deck plans to address the publication constraints of paper size and acceptable complexity. The major changes were to cut 3m from the nose ahead of the bridge and 4.5m from the "gooseneck" aft of it then reshape the front to recover some of the lost space; cut out 3m across the wing and through the fuselage; and, finally, move the underslung Ship's Boat into the GCarrier's garage.
 
And I may have missed something that I only figured out by deciding that the ship's boat needs to move down 1.5m: Perhaps the deck plans are less wrong than I thought -- the mid-deck goes straight through, but the top and bottom decks are both more than 3m tall?

Back to the drawing board...
 
And I may have missed something that I only figured out by deciding that the ship's boat needs to move down 1.5m: Perhaps the deck plans are less wrong than I thought -- the mid-deck goes straight through, but the top and bottom decks are both more than 3m tall?

Back to the drawing board...

So instead of the section through the middle of the cargo bay looking like the top image, it looks like the bottom one.
EDIT: Forgot to shift the boat down to account for the taller lower deck.
Sections Sketch 2.jpg
 
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Well, I tried rearranging it with a 'half deck" below the fuselage (1.5m) so there's room for a full deck below the center one (if it's straight-through, not split-level).
Only really adds room for occupied space (2.15m ceiling height) in the drive bay section, so it's not much help except maybe to fill out the fuel shortfall. The problem is that it can't just be a rectangular block, but also has to be "streamlined" and interface with the ship's boat.

Back to the split-level... LOL
 
Getting there.

Here's the cheesy patched-together impression of what it it would have looked like , just as a placeholder.
I'm still working on the cleaned-up version.

This was almost possible. And it might would have actually fit (or close enough) if they rotated it on the paper and let the wings extend off the page. Would have to swap the top deck and ship's boat plans, and slide the lower deck a bit further into the right wing.

Would have looked rather sloppy, though -- and required an additional sheet (8.5x11") with more illustrations (reduced-scale side cross-section, top view including wings, etc.) to fully explain where everything was in relation to everything else.

It's clear why they didn't go with the plans from which the illustration was drawn.

On the other hand, I like those plans.

And I'm not limited by using actual paper. :)

Yet.
 

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A big problem here is stuffing a T&G ship's boat into a design not suited for it. The squarer ship's boat in the original illustration is easier to fit in.

The long slender boats in T&G fits well in larger ships, not so well in smaller ships. There's a market here...
 
A big problem here is stuffing a T&G ship's boat into a design not suited for it. The squarer ship's boat in the original illustration is easier to fit in.

The long slender boats in T&G fits well in larger ships, not so well in smaller ships. There's a market here...
Agreed. There ought to be a more compact variant. Even the Subsidized Merchant doesn't use the T&G Lifeboat.

However, the illustration clearly shows the nose of an underslung T&G configuration small craft. The funny thing is, once the hull gets "restored" to match the illustration and the drive bay gets adjusted to suit, the doors line up with the cargo hold!

I suspect the T&G small craft were a product of the early Traveller (LBB2 '77) conception of small craft: surface-to-orbit rockets, more or less. Thus, they look like rockets -- slender and cylindrical.
 
However, the illustration clearly shows the nose of an underslung T&G configuration small craft.
That is a slight exaggeration...

I suspect the T&G small craft were a product of the early Traveller (LBB2 '77) conception of small craft: surface-to-orbit rockets, more or less. Thus, they look like rockets -- slender and cylindrical.
Perhaps, but then they should be tail-sitters. Possibly they are modelled on aircraft, but without wings.

The Pinnace is winged like an aircraft, making it impossible to fit into a ship's deck plan.
 
Here's most of it, still in work. After a series of edits, it's about done.
(See how lazy I was about the ship's boat deck plans? That'll get fixed.) Fixed. (If you didn't see it, it was a hilariously crude cut/paste from S7.)

Still need to put the lockers, low berths, and airlocks into the lower cargo deck. Done.
OOPS! They go on the LOWER cargo deck! Fixing... Fixed.

The weird outline on the upper cargo deck is a section of the floor that can be removed to for clearance in extracting maximum-dimension cargo (4.5m x 6m x 3m) from the ship's boat.

Forward cargo space in the attic is the missile magazine.

One last edit I need to take care of: a manual hatch from the loading bay in the attic (behind and to port of the freight elevator) into the drive bay. This provides a separate path from the flight crew quarters, through the magazine space and loading bay, to the drive bay, with pressurization independent of the state of the cargo hold.
 

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That is a slight exaggeration...
Maybe a drop tank, avant la lettre?

Nah, it's an underslung carried craft.
Perhaps, but then they should be tail-sitters.
They could be... they're not, of course, but they're almost plausible without artificial gravity. You just can't move about the cabin under acceleration...
Possibly they are modelled on aircraft, but without wings.

The Pinnace is winged like an aircraft, making it impossible to fit into a ship's deck plan.
But the wings sweep back, which helps a little bit. Not enough, true.
Variable-sweep wings were still viable and cool looking back then (F-14, F-111).
 
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Top view deck plans (still in work, but with the wings) reposted above -- I swapped out the attachment for one with more progress.

Edit to add: I think I may go with the LBB2 spec for double-occupancy gunners, but give them larger staterooms to make up for it. The space saved will go toward a larger common area.

Edit 2: Did it -- they get the largest two rooms, but the rooms aren't all that much larger than the rest. Not entirely satisfied, but unless I get a better idea I'll let it go.

Re-reposted.

Edit 3: I think that's pretty much everything. Need to clean it up, add some auxiliary views, and write up the details, but that's my best guess reconstruction of the deck plans of the Type T from the cover illustration of FASA's Adventure Class Ships Vol. II.

Re^3-posted.
 
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Caught two drafting errors. One isn't really an error -- I just hit the wall last night before putting in the floor hatch from the loading bay (in attic, ahead of GCarrier bay) to the upper drive deck. The other is that in patching the low berths, storage lockers, and underwing airlocks into the lower cargo hold, I erased the floor iris valve to the ship's boat.
 
Here's a side-by-side comparison between the FASA deckplans and the ones I reverse-engineered from the illustration.

Edit: might have found another drafting error, this time with respect to the wing root location.

Attachment removed pending adjustments.
 
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Anyhow. Remaining deliverables:
- Await feedback on plans so far (mostly the stateroom layouts).
- External side and split front/rear views in 1/4"= 1.5m scale
- Deck Plans in 1/2"=1.5m scale (in sections that fit 8 1/2" x 11" sheets)
- Detailed descriptions of each section

And finally, for the PbP that started this trip down the rabbit hole (honest, I just thought using a set of classic deck plans would make things easier!), the "yacht" conversion details.

Thanks for hanging in here with me through this whole process. Credit to @Spinward Flow, @AnotherDilbert, @Swiftbrook, @whartung, and @Rigel Stardin for their suggestions and insights. Apologies if I missed anyone...
 
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