Skimming gas giants

[Blue Ghost]

Well, I think for what a ship's grav drive does in the game it's a non-issue. It's one of those handwave things; i.e. it works, and anything that overtakes it has to be dealt with via thrust.

Just doing some guess work here (and you can criticize me all you want), based upon what I think is commonly understood about starships and how they take off and land, is that the grav drive helps heft the vessel against whatever operational gravity is present up to a certain amount of force. That is it probably works for vessels on worlds up to size A, and anything beyond that needs some kind of extra help.

I think every game group and conversation I've had about the topic has had the notion that the grav assist is part of the manuevre drive, and once you reach orbital velocity (or maybe even before) the thing probably shuts down as the ship's acceleration is enough to defeat the gravitational pull.

I've never seen anything to refer to it as anything specifically that needed attention, but considering the number of odd non-aerodynamic (and by that I mean bodies with no lift potential, no wheels/gear and only skids) vessels there are in this game, I think what I posted is reasonable, and that the grav drive is an integral component of the ships maneuvre drive.

Beyond that, I think the best anyone can do is shrug. I bring this up because something really did seem to bothering you based on the tone of your posts, and I was worried if maybe me or somebody else was stepping on your toes, or whether this had been a sore point for you in terms of rules, players, or just stuff in general.

In the end it's all hokum. But I like to think that the conversations that go on here are a fun exercise, and that perhaps someone who has no knowledge of either Traveller, me, the rules, or just has a passing interesting in science, will read these things and go "wow, that's interesting."

Thanks.

 

[Ishmael]

You still haven't supplied the missing data. See below.

What, exactly, [i[is[/i] the missing data?
There was nothing listing "below"
With acceleration and mass, we get force.
With force and distance, we get work
With work and time, we get power

Don't the rules say how much power the drives need from the PP?
In some editions, they do, but in some editions its all hazy abstraction.

 

[aramis]

What, exactly, [i[is[/i] the missing data?
There was nothing listing "below"
With acceleration and mass, we get force.
With force and distance, we get work
With work and time, we get power

Don't the rules say how much power the drives need from the PP?
In some editions, they do, but in some editions its all hazy abstraction.

THe missing data: How much energy has to be put "on target" to generate the 1G acceleration; note that because E_total=v², ∆E=abs(V₁²-V₂²).

Since V is always relative, however.... V is indeterminate.

The other way is "how much energy to create an artificial gravity well of xG's in front of the ship"... which, again, we don't know the exact energy, but can guess an upper bound based upon the more efficient of T-Plates/MDs or AG/IC systems.

And as a gross generalization, nothing exceeds 90% efficient ever... most things don't exceed 25%. Entropy is a total BEEP.:devil:

The actual energy could be anything less, and using AG/IC systems may be totally wrong, because they may work on a different principle.

Too many variables to solve for.

 

[Carlobrand]

You still haven't supplied the missing data. See below.

And you haven't actually defended your position. You just keep saying no without actually presenting evidence for your view. There's a little more to a discussion than just saying, "you're wrong." You are clearly convinced of your own position, you've shown yourself in the past to be quite well-informed and, while we're no experts, there are none of us here who are slouches in the brain department. Give us the science, show us how 260 to 500 million joules/second in and 23 million newtons out can give us anything from 1% to 99% efficiency. Otherwise ...

... well, I don't know. If your only argument is that we can't begin to understand, I just don't think most people are going to find that helpful or persuasive.

If on the other hand, your argument is that there is no science for it, no way to tell what besides push is being produced, that even Einstein doesn't have the science to tell us, then my response is to repeat my previous post: as with the jump drive, as with the black globe, as with other elements of Traveller sci-fi, if there's nothing that actually speaks to it, then it can be whatever we feel serves the game's needs. Matter/energy can neither be created nor destroyed; if there's a disparity between what goes in and the work that comes out, and absolutely no way of telling what that disparity might represent, then at least a part of it is eligible for our game use.

 

[Ishmael]

THe missing data: How much energy has to be put "on target" to generate the 1G acceleration; note that because E_total=v², ∆E=abs(V₁²-V₂²).

Since V is always relative, however.... V is indeterminate.

for each second of time, V₂ = V₁ + acceleration
we can see how much KE is added each second as I've done before. Absolute total energy is relative and thus indeterminate but we can tell how much has been added relative to some point in the past.

 

[Carlobrand]

Here's a daunting challenge: HD 189733b, a "hot jupiter" circling close to its sun, possibly tidally locked, atmospheric temperatures in the 1800 degree F range, winds possibly exceeding 7000 mph, blue atmosphere - they think because silicates in the atmosphere are condensing into tiny grains of glass. Imagine sucking that into your intake ports.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/bizarro-blue-alien-planets-color-detected-first-time-6C10600962

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27286220/...ace/t/strange-weather-hot-jupiters-explained/

Of course, this is at the limits of available tech and tricks of the trade, so some data could prove to be wrong. Still, an interesting little world to find in your TU - especially if it's the only fuel source.

 

[HG_B]

And you haven't actually defended your position.

What are you talking about? My position is that a variable is missing from the equation (which it is).

 

[Blue Ghost]

Here's a daunting challenge: HD 189733b, a "hot jupiter" circling close to its sun, possibly tidally locked, atmospheric temperatures in the 1800 degree F range, winds possibly exceeding 7000 mph, blue atmosphere - they think because silicates in the atmosphere are condensing into tiny grains of glass. Imagine sucking that into your intake ports.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/bizarro-blue-alien-planets-color-detected-first-time-6C10600962

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27286220/...ace/t/strange-weather-hot-jupiters-explained/

Of course, this is at the limits of available tech and tricks of the trade, so some data could prove to be wrong. Still, an interesting little world to find in your TU - especially if it's the only fuel source.

That's beautiful. I feel another adventure brewing in my head :smirk:

*EDIT*
Mercury is said to have a super-heated plasmasphere that barrels around the planet at 9000mph...

To the players; an eccentric millionaire asks you to retrieve a lost trinket on a world very much like Mercury back home...

 

[Blue Ghost]

No one wants to go to Mercury

 

[HG_B]

No one wants to go to Mercury

If it was tide locked it would be attractive as a mining planet (it is denser than Earth with all that implies) but as it has a 3:2 rotation it would get a bit hot for manned facilities unless underground.

 

[pennshome723]

Is Mercury a rock ball or is it a molten rock covered planet with no atmosphere at all?

 

[HG_B]

Is Mercury a rock ball or is it a molten rock covered planet with no atmosphere at all?

It is rock ball with an iron core and an atmosphere about 2 trillionths as dense as Earths. It has a magnetic field.

 

[Drakon]

Mercury

Mercury has a solid, but very hot surface, no atmosphere, and a large molten core. There is a lot of iron in Mercury.

 

[pennshome723]

It is rock ball with an iron core and an atmosphere about 2 trillionths as dense as Earths. It has a magnetic field.

I think Venus is the planet with a atmosphere and Mercury is without one!

 

[HG_B]

I think Venus is the planet with a atmosphere and Mercury is without one!

Venus has an atmosphere that is very dense and holds in tremendous heat. Venus doesn't have a magnetic field of any consequence. For density of Mercury atmosphere, see my last post.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Check out "Deadliest Space Weather", episode 5 where they talk about fast winds and combinations of temperatures. Very cool stuff.

 

[HG_B]

Check out "Deadliest Space Weather", episode 5 where they talk about fast winds and combinations of temperatures. Very cool stuff.

Which planets did they highlight?

 

[Blue Ghost]

It's mostly Neptune, but I think there's a little blurb about Mercury towards the end.

 

[HG_B]

It's mostly Neptune, but I think there's a little blurb about Mercury towards the end.

Sounds cool. I'll look it up

 

[Blue Ghost]

I misspoke, it's not episode 5. I can't recall where, but in that series they discuss Mercury for like 30 seconds, and talk about 9000 mph plasma winds.

I'll try and get a reference somewhere.