The Solomani, not just bad guys anymore

[jcrocker]

The Solomani strength was determination. No matter what the 3I did, the Solomani never gave up. Yeah, they should have many client states rim ward.

Any time we've seen a One Party State in the real world, they've always been 'forced' to have this continuous, ongoing "struggle" for (or against) X, Y, or Z, and by an amazing coincidence, the main side-effect of the struggle is to justify The Party and everything it stands for, and everything it does.

So yes, the Solomani Confederation will be very determined, for as long as SolSec and the Monitor Corps say they must.

Being Terran human, they would be anyway, but as presented the Solomani Cause seems destined to take its fair share and then some of the Solli's official efforts.

I have also always thought that there should be a whole lot of rimward expansion or client states - but maybe those would be a distraction from "the struggle" and are thus not allowed. If so, it was a very subtle decision by GDW, kudos.

 

[RandyB]

Any time we've seen a One Party State in the real world, they've always been 'forced' to have this continuous, ongoing "struggle" for (or against) X, Y, or Z, and by an amazing coincidence, the main side-effect of the struggle is to justify The Party and everything it stands for, and everything it does.

Or two sides of the Party struggling against each other - publicly, they are in opposition, but somehow The Party as a whole always benefits...

 

[Timerover51]

I have also always thought that there should be a whole lot of rimward expansion or client states - but maybe those would be a distraction from "the struggle" and are thus not allowed. If so, it was a very subtle decision by GDW, kudos.

That is where my Heretical Traveller Universe is located, to the Rimward of the Canopus sector, which in turn is to the Rimward of the Magyar Sector, which is Spinward of the Solomani Rim.

No client states of the Solomani, and wide open for exploration.

 

[savage]

Any time we've seen a One Party State in the real world, they've always been 'forced' to have this continuous, ongoing "struggle" for (or against) X, Y, or Z, and by an amazing coincidence, the main side-effect of the struggle is to justify The Party and everything it stands for, and everything it does.

So yes, the Solomani Confederation will be very determined, for as long as SolSec and the Monitor Corps say they must.

Being Terran human, they would be anyway, but as presented the Solomani Cause seems destined to take its fair share and then some of the Solli's official efforts.

I have also always thought that there should be a whole lot of rimward expansion or client states - but maybe those would be a distraction from "the struggle" and are thus not allowed. If so, it was a very subtle decision by GDW, kudos.

I've always thought part of the Solomani Rim sector should be a Switzerland between the Imperium and Solomani. A separate entity. IMO the Imperium is underpowered in other regions that just don't make sense.

 

[jcrocker]

I've always thought part of the Solomani Rim sector should be a Switzerland between the Imperium and Solomani. A separate entity. IMO the Imperium is underpowered in other regions that just don't make sense.

In the official timeline, there was never a peace treaty, just an armistice - the Solomani aren't going to give up any of their space to make some other state, and the Imperium had a lot of good men and women die to reclaim what was rightfully the Imperium's.

It would make sense, but it wasn't in the script.

 

[aramis]

In the official timeline, there was never a peace treaty, just an armistice - the Solomani aren't going to give up any of their space to make some other state, and the Imperium had a lot of good men and women die to reclaim what was rightfully the Imperium's.

It would make sense, but it wasn't in the script.

More importantly, the Sol subsector spent most of 100 years under martial law; Terra was still under Imperial Marine law when Strephon was assassinated.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

It has always seemed like there would or should be more petty factions in the SolCon. Not enough balkanization.

The current set does not seem adequately numerous.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Garnfellow]

More importantly, the Sol subsector spent most of 100 years under martial law; Terra was still under Imperial Marine law when Strephon was assassinated.

Probably not. Although there was an ongoing marine presence, Terra was granted home rule -- with presumably an end to military rule -- somewhere around 1110. (Some sources have it as early as 1009, others as late as 1111.)

 

[whulorigan]

Probably not. Although there was an ongoing marine presence, Terra was granted home rule -- with presumably an end to military rule -- somewhere around 1110. (Some sources have it as early as 1009, others as late as 1111.)

GT:Rim of Fire has a transitional government assuming authority by 1111/1112, and a fully functioning home-rule government by about 1115/1116. IIRC, in that timeline the newly appointed Marchioness of Terra (Alessandra daSilva) also becomes the hereditary constitutionally-limited head-of-state for the Terran Civil Service Bureaucracy government.

 

[savage]

In the official timeline, there was never a peace treaty, just an armistice - the Solomani aren't going to give up any of their space to make some other state, and the Imperium had a lot of good men and women die to reclaim what was rightfully the Imperium's.

It would make sense, but it wasn't in the script.

The only way it works is if the sector does not want to be a part of either empire.
And both empires figure that without SR sector the fight is not achievable. It's the "we're tired of both of you killing us scenario".

 

[Timerover51]

GT:Rim of Fire has a transitional government assuming authority by 1111/1112, and a fully functioning home-rule government by about 1115/1116. IIRC, in that timeline the newly appointed Marchioness of Terra (Alessandra daSilva) also becomes the hereditary constitutionally-limited head-of-state for the Terran Civil Service Bureaucracy government.

To what extent it GURPS Traveller viewed as canon?

As I have absolutely nothing whatsoever of GURPS Traveller, to what extent am I supposed to know whatever is canon with respect to writing other Traveller Material?

 

[aramis]

To what extent it GURPS Traveller viewed as canon?

As I have absolutely nothing whatsoever of GURPS Traveller, to what extent am I supposed to know whatever is canon with respect to writing other Traveller Material?

If' you're writing canonical materials - everything dated pre-1111 is pretty much canonical, and anything not divergent due to the lack of the assassination is likewise canonical.

So is MT and the DGP materials, even tho' the DGP cannot be directly quoted in new materials.

 

[Uren]

I don't have my books with me, but iirc the ct description of the solomani confederation was largely non-judgemental. It was described without condemning or praising. The condemnation came later from dgp and then gt. Gt was especially bad. It pigeonholed the solomani as racists and the sword worlders as macho idiots until Hans gave them the treatment they deserved. Too bad no one wrote a book that did the same for the solomani. Gt was especially galling because most of the alien races they came up with are raging xenophobes, but only the solomani are referred to as racist and supremacist.

Here's why the baddie judgement on the solomani doesn't fly for me.

1. They demonstrated their superiority by conquering the ziru sirka, then their descendants coming back and conquering again to found the 3I. The vilani never regained their former glory.

2. Sol was happily puttering along on the rim ward edge of the imperium until the hardcore solomani movement supporters were banished out there on account of a vilani princess. Their ancestors brought the 3I into being, the solomani hypothesis was true, they were faithful and they got banished. No wonder they were mad. They probably took their fleets money and grudges with them and settled in the solomani sphere nursing a bitter hatred. I think that they would have worked behind the scenes to set the chain of events leading to secession in motion over many years. With anagathics some of them could have still been around in 990, and their children definitely would have been.
This wasn't a solomani issue until disenfranchised nobles made it the sphere's issue.

3. IMO the rim war was another civil war between aristocrats, a delayed conflict between the pro solomani and pro vilani factions of the imperial nobility rather than an interest of the Solomani populations. Once the secessionists took over in the sphere, the populations pretty much had to hunker down and go along.

4. The solomani are the only human race that is ethnically and culturally diverse. The vilani and zhodani are mono ethnic it's not like they don't think they're better than everyone else.

 

[mike wightman]

What evidence is there for mono-ethnicity in Vilani or Zhodani?
They have been around as long as Solomani, and it that time we have produced ethnic differences from the same origin, so why not the Vilani and Zhos?

 

[aramis]

What evidence is there for mono-ethnicity in Vilani or Zhodani?
They have been around as long as Solomani, and it that time we have produced ethnic differences from the same origin, so why not the Vilani and Zhos?

There's multi-ethnic evidence in DGP materials - we see both dark and light skinned villani portrayed.

 

[Garnfellow]

I don't have my books with me, but iirc the ct description of the solomani confederation was largely non-judgemental. It was described without condemning or praising. The condemnation came later from dgp and then gt. Gt was especially bad. It pigeonholed the solomani as racists and the sword worlders as macho idiots until Hans gave them the treatment they deserved.

You should find your books, because your memory is not serving you well. Solomani racism is hard baked into the CT description -- and in fact, as the CT alien module is written from an Imperial perspective, the portrait of the Solomani is probably the most simplistic and monolithic. SolSec, Big Brother, a Nazi/Stalin type of police state . . . it's all there in the original Alien Module.

The DGP book is written from a Solomani perspective, so appears to be sympathetic -- but written cleverly enough to still critique the deplorable racial politics of the Party. The DGP book tries hard to add texture to the portrait by showing a diversity of ideas and cultures within the Confederation.

The GURPS book goes even farther, showing a fractured Confederation with all sorts of different factions fighting it out. The racists are there, and influential within the Party -- but they are opposed by plenty of enlightened groups.

 

[Condottiere]

The General Assembly plays power politics, with self interested lobbyists and factions, some pragmatic, some idealistic, and some ideologues.

Not too different what's happening today.

The racism issue is unlikely to be a problem in the core worlds, since most aliens would be treated as curiosities, but likely more apparent along the frontiers, where a combination of xenophobia and embedding the Solomani Cause within the planetary culture will create conflict.

 

[Uren]

You should find your books, because your memory is not serving you well. Solomani racism is hard baked into the CT description -- and in fact, as the CT alien module is written from an Imperial perspective, the portrait of the Solomani is probably the most simplistic and monolithic. SolSec, Big Brother, a Nazi/Stalin type of police state . . . it's all there in the original Alien Module.

The DGP book is written from a Solomani perspective, so appears to be sympathetic -- but written cleverly enough to still critique the deplorable racial politics of the Party. The DGP book tries hard to add texture to the portrait by showing a diversity of ideas and cultures within the Confederation.

The GURPS book goes even farther, showing a fractured Confederation with all sorts of different factions fighting it out. The racists are there, and influential within the Party -- but they are opposed by plenty of enlightened groups.

I should have explicitly stated the point of my post: dgp and gt pigeonhole the solomani as setting villains for their racial supremacy doctrines while overlooking mitigating circumstances and giving other racist/xenophobic races a pass. CT described the solomani including the racial supremacy doctrines present in their society without passing judgement and while presenting mitigating information.

The Solomani confederation is governed by a hierarchy of councils (again iirc) and the triumvirate of the party the military and SolSec, and SolSec has an overtly political policing function, but that's where IMO the similarities to stalinism/naziism end. It's not socialist, it's ethnically linguistically and culturally diverse, and member worlds have somewhat more autonomy than those in the imperium (forming multi world trade blocs). I don't even want to call it a surveillance state because of the difficulty of creating a 1984type pervasive surveillance system over thousands of worlds of varying tech levels. You need a pretty big shoehorn to make it fit familiar convenient 20th century stalinist/Nazi themes.

Is the solomani confederation a "good guy"? No. Neither is anyone else, and designating one group the setting villain diminishes the suspension of disbelief.

IMO the zhodani are mono ethnic because of the small sample taken from terra, the comment in the zhodani alien module regarding two races existed on zhdant then mixed to create another race, then a massive population die off killing two thirds of the population, and then one language being spoken on zhdant. It also describes zhodani as tall swarthy and lithe, and that this is extremely common.

I don't recall enough from dgp's vilani writeup to make a case for why I have the impression that the vilani are mono ethnic, but I do recall something about their callous treatment of their enemies, use of wmd, and of course their relentless imperialism and what the sources call oppression of conquered races.

I really would have liked more sources on the vilani because I think they would be the common people of the imperial core, the heart of the imperium. There wasn't anything in the dgp writeup that made me want to play a vilani character.

 

[aramis]

I don't recall enough from dgp's vilani writeup to make a case for why I have the impression that the vilani are mono ethnic, but I do recall something about their callous treatment of their enemies, use of wmd, and of course their relentless imperialism and what the sources call oppression of conquered races.

All of which is hinted at elsewhere before hand.

 

[Whipsnade]

IMO the zhodani are mono ethnic because of the small sample taken from terra, the comment in the zhodani alien module regarding two races existed on zhdant then mixed to create another race, then a massive population die off killing two thirds of the population, and then one language being spoken on zhdant.

The Toba bottleneck occurred "only" 50K years ago and humanity on Earth diversified enough to produce Vikings, Bantus, and Tasman Islanders. The Zhodani have plenty of time to diversify too.

It also describes zhodani as tall swarthy and lithe, and that this is extremely common.

The meta-game reason for that description is that the writer was lazy.

The in-game reason for that description is that it fits a majority of the Zhodani nobility in contact with the Marches.

I don't recall enough from dgp's vilani writeup to make a case for why I have the impression that the vilani are mono ethnic, but I do recall something about their callous treatment of their enemies, use of wmd, and of course their relentless imperialism and what the sources call oppression of conquered races.

The Vilani are neither mono-ethnic or racist. The Vilani are culture-ist. You can be the Eight-Legged Goons from Phroon, it doesn't matter. As long as you conform to their cultural norms, as the Bwap manifestly did, you'll thrive under their rule.