BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
True and I concede the point. I was thinking on that today at work actually and asked myself.. If the BD frame can support so much weight why not more armor? In CT I believe it was for simplicity that the two share the same defense but as you point out in T4 BD armor improves as TL increases.Originally posted by Jamus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Um...that's clearly not true. In many versions of Traveller (TNE, T4, GT, T20), BD gives more protection than CA, and thus the version of traveller is clearly relevant.
G-belts are in CT</font>[/QUOTE]Yes they are and they are an additional cost of KCr100 in CT.Gravitic drive with CT BD, moving at a run without tiring indefinitely, moving at a run without thinking across a battlefield equals evading. Not one of those are in any of the LBBs I have. If they are please point them out.
You did but that still is at the pace of walking/running. That isn't much ground covered in the grand scheme of things, nor is it much difference. Compared even to horseback troops they aren't very mobile.Noone said running indifintely I stated that the effectively unencumbered person could run faster and further than the encumbered person thus granting more battlefield mobility. common sense.
Have you ever done that? (And no, putting on pretend armor and swinging plastic swords is not equivalent.) I spent 9 years in the US Army. One of my two MOS's was 11B in a Light Infantry Unit. I have done it, in some very brutal conditions. (Fortunately never when live rounds were coming my way, but you never want to be on the losing end when the Miles gear is in use either.) I taught it. Guess what, it does require thought, observation, and especially watching your step. The ground you are moving over is never flat, it is never empty of obstructions, and the weather hardly ever cooperates to give you the vision you would like to have to move over this kind of ground. (If it was cooperating then your enemy would likely be able to see you better anyway so you have to be even more aware. You have to decide on next cover point, what cover points there are between here and there, alternate routes and making sure you are actually still going in the correct direction, at the correct pace. Now every soldier has to do that for for two guys because you have to keep aware of your partner or buddy. (Two is one, one is none.) Now, once you have your mind wrapped around that, kick it up a notch. How about keeping track of a fireteam? How about a Squad? An entire Platoon? A Company? When visibility is less than 50m? There is no mindless running in a combat zone, that is a quick ticket home in a box. Oh and unless it is a situation where you are actually in contact with the enemy, it is done at a walk, not a run.I would assume.. maybe for the worse that a BD marine unit would be trained at least to current US army infantry standards. IMTU the training is much more intense but..
Firstly moving at a run is evasive second no real thinking need be given to running from one set of cover to the next. are you asserting that diving behind a sandbag or tree requires active thought and decision making? Are we to believe that trained soldiers do not automatically move in an evasive manner each and everytime they are in battlefield conditions? also not the case.
Battledress having other options is one thing that makes the T20 vehicle system work. It actually allows those options. Including pricing, space required, power requirements, etc. You think of vehicles as Hummers, cars and bigger. Actually that category would also include bicycles, unicycles, and even rollerskates. Under the T20 definition of vehicles those are all vehicles. SO Servo assisted Armor would rightly be classified as a vehicle. And as my Marine "Roughneck" armor shows it can still classified as Medium or Man sized (Granted it is a very large man in size, but the rules classify it as Medium.)and you can include things like true ground mobility, and Grav drive or you can leave some of those items off and actually get really close to an average male in size. You can also have differences that are quantified and priced so you can have two different sets of Battledress that cost differently can be used at different tech levels and add or not add all of those features you think should be included.I do stand by the opinion that CT BD includes a ton of options not specified in the books but clearly hinted at and I do stand that evading movement over the battlefield does not require conscious thought but I am only speaking from experience on that last point. If you stop to think you die. training makes certain actions instinctual<sp>
I guess if you want to bring this thread back on topic I would say that granting the vehicle class damage resist to battle armor doesnt make alot of sense. I would think that alot of that damage resist would come from vehicle mass and stability and lets be honest here.. even if the BD had the armor to stop a missle or large caliber round the trooper inside would still be sent flying or knocked down by the kenitic force IMO... unless contra grav systems were to be designed to keep the guy upright.. thats possible i guess.
That is a major advantage for classifying it as a vehicle. Now the frame itself will provide some protection for the trooper wearing it, in addition to the armor of the suit, hence even with the same armor plating it will offer more protection to the occupant. (So the vehicle classification works in more than one way.)
You stop and think you die? What kind of combat training have you actually received? It certainly isn't Soviet, or US Army or Marines. (The majority of my military career was actually in Human Intelligence.) I guess the Air Force believes speed is life. But there are lots of situations where stopping is exactly what you need to do in combat. Besides unlike a Tank with a stabilized main gun, an accurate shot still requires a stable firing position, and is best accomplished while you are stationary. (Even with a Stabilized tank, they are more accurate firing from a "short halt.") Defensive positions can be compromised by someone moving. (Even limited movement.) The human eye picks up movement much easier than a stationary target as do most current sensor systems.
Gyroscope systems would also help accomplish keeping a suit of BD upright, provided the armor was designed to take that kind of hit in the first place. KE transferred to a target from a typical hand held weapon will only knock a person down if they are unbalanced in the first place, YMMV. Armor of this type would probably not take the full KE of the weapon in the first place, it would more likely absorb some energy and deflect the rest. Battledress, especially the BD of T20 provides a wider stance, and larger ground surface contact so would be much less likely to be knocked down than a normal sized person. Now they do gain a higher center of Gravity in the equation, but again gyroscopic stabilization or equivalent would go quite a ways to counter a tendency to get toppled.