CT Only: Fixing the Type T Deck Plans?

[Grav_Moped]

Ok, I've done the math and the main hull is 14Td short (everything adds up to 226Td, including the part of the ship's boat that's outside the hull contours.

Nose ahead of the wing leading edge is a 49Td pyramid, with about 3Td of flight deck stuck on to it (52Td).
The two decks of the main hull from the wing leading edge to the aft end, including the drive nozzles, is 127Td.
The attic is 20Td without the sloped edges from the sides of the attic to the top edges of the middle (upper main) deck; those add about 3Td, so it's about 23Td.
The ship's boat is about 3/4 external, so that's about 23Td.

Add it all up, it's 226Td, or 14Td short (excluding the 160Td that's fuel tanks, which are the wings).

It gets real close if you make the wingtip fins from bridge tonnage (maybe they're where a bunch of antennae and sensors are?) and/or make the flight deck a little larger.

Put the turrets and fire control outside the hull form, and it's even closer.

I think it'll do.

 

[Grav_Moped]

My assumptions were as follows:
1. The ship is 75m in length including the drives sticking out the back.
2. The plan view (hull is a long, skinny triangle) is correct except that about 3m was cut from the length to make it fit on the paper, and the outline adjusted to suit. The plan did not note the space lost to beveling the corners of the main deck.
3. The nose section tapers from 6m height at the wing leading edge to almost a point at the nose, and the width is proportionate.
4. The main hull in the space between the wings maintains a constant 6m thickness aside from beveling at the aft end.
5. The "attic" maxes out at 3m height, and its side area is approximately that of a half ellipse (or two dissimilar quarter-ellipses).
6. The ship's boat is partially (and only partially) inside the hull.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Now I've got to stuff everything into that hull in a way that makes some sort of sense...

Basically, the main changes are that the ship's boat is carried externally instead of in the back of the attic (which is much smaller than it looks on the original plans), and part of the goose-neck is now two decks tall. The extra deck space in the goose-neck may be where the troop barracks goes.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I'm considering splitting up the lifesystem into "officer country" and "enlisted country".
Officers (single occupancy):
Pilot, Navigator, Chief Engineer, Gunnery Officer, Troop Commander, Medic.
Enlisted (double occupancy):
3 gunners, 7 troops.

Philosophical Questions:
- Does the medic need to be an officer slot? Medic-3 (doctor) would be, Medic-2 or lower is probably an NCO.
- Would the troop commander prefer to bunk with the troops instead? I'd tend to think so, but that just gives him/her a single-occupancy cabin adjacent to the barracks.

I'm thinking about this in the context of the Type T being primarily a military vessel, and the class stratification of the Third Imperium (and mirrored to planetary navies).

 

[Grav_Moped]

Also, I'm wondering how crew assignments work. Are the ship's troops permanently (or approximately so) assigned to a specific ship, or do they rotate out periodically? What are the implications either way?

I'm assuming that gunner is a long-term assignment, along with the rest of the ship crew. If not, why not?

As a sidebar, gunners don't get paid much (honestly, most of the time they don't do much) but I wonder if there ought to be a combat bonus involved somewhere in the pay scale...

 

[Grav_Moped]

Further, I'm debating whether to have a dedicated medical bay (from the overall stateroom space allocation) or just re-purpose the medic's room (or some multipurpose room) as needed. The seriously injured go into low berths for skilled treatment later, so a med bay might not be really necessary.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Interesting question: Can the ship's boat transport the GCarrier?

Based on the GCarrier shown on the FASA deck plans, and the layout of the Ship's Boat in Sup. 7, it can't. Won't fit through the boat's cargo hatch, and the ship's boat has what looks like only 6Td cargo space (which could be up to 7 if there is no floor or ceiling in its cargo bay).

And unless the Ship's Boat on the Type T deck plans has a roof (or floor) hatch that's not shown, it's wouldn't have gone in there either, even if the seats all fold away. (If it does, and they do -- yeah, it could do it, depending on how the ship's boat's hull tapers in cross section.)

So, it doesn't seem to be necessary to provide a way to transfer the GCarrier to the ship's boat within the hull of the ship, since it only deploys directly from the ship rather than via the small craft. It'd be nice, but isn't necessary.

 

[whartung]

Also, I'm wondering how crew assignments work. Are the ship's troops permanently (or approximately so) assigned to a specific ship, or do they rotate out periodically? What are the implications either way?

Define "permanently". "Everyone" rotates out eventually, the lower ranking staff will rotate out for training, terming out, and promotion. The leadership might stay longer term, but I would doubt that as well. Unless the ship is seeing action of some kind, nobody probably wants to stay there and will move out at first opportunity.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Define "permanently". "Everyone" rotates out eventually, the lower ranking staff will rotate out for training, terming out, and promotion. The leadership might stay longer term, but I would doubt that as well. Unless the ship is seeing action of some kind, nobody probably wants to stay there and will move out at first opportunity.

What I was getting at is whether the troops are assigned to the ship for the same duration as the flight crew, or whether they're on shorter rotations (perhaps on loan from local forces).

That could be the justification for giving them smaller living quarters than the flight crew.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Also, it looks like I can pretty much keep the existing drive layout with a bit of tinkering around the edges. Such tinkering being necessary because the edges of those decks are clipped off compared to what the original deck plans show.

The major change (aside from slinging the boat underneath instead of having it in the attic) is that the lower two decks are displaced upwards by 1.5m, and the lower deck is stretched partway into the gooseneck. (That is, consider the middle deck to be the original full length but with a juke upwards halfway back, to clear the extended lower deck.)

 

[Spinward Flow]

I'm considering splitting up the lifesystem into "officer country" and "enlisted country".

You mean like how I did with my deck plans?

- Does the medic need to be an officer slot? Medic-3 (doctor) would be, Medic-2 or lower is probably an NCO.

Think of the medic is being the head of an entire department.
Yes, it's a department of 1 person, but they're still the head of an entire department.

I would argue that double occupancy is a Skill-1 thing for stateroom assignments, while Skill-2+ ought to be assigned single occupancy.
Thus, if you've got a Medical-2 skilled medic (for +1 DM on low berth resuscitation rolls) they ostensibly ought to be assigned a single occupancy stateroom.

However, in terms of location within the ship, if you have any medical beds at all (autodoc, isolation bed, medical bed, etc.) then the medic's stateroom assignment ought to be "nearby" whatever medical facilities are available. If that puts the medic in the "enlisted section" of the ship for stateroom accommodations, that's fine, since it places them more adjacent-ish to where the medical beds onboard are located.

Would the troop commander prefer to bunk with the troops instead? I'd tend to think so, but that just gives him/her a single-occupancy cabin adjacent to the barracks.

This is how I would handle it.
The troop commander gets a single occupancy stateroom while the rest of the troops receive double occupancy bunking.
That then leads to an assumption of 5 staterooms for 9 troops (a full Squad).

Note that 5 staterooms (20 tons) plus G-Carrier (8 tons) plus 4 low berths (2 tons) equals 30 tons ... which just so happens to be the exact same size as a Modular Cutter Module (hence why in my Patrol Corvette design evolution, that's where I put the Ship's Troops in exactly that configuration).

 

[Spinward Flow]

One thing that I have been able to conclusively prove to myself working on my own deck plans using Starship Geomorphs 2.0 snippets has been to work out that if staterooms are 2x2 deck squares in size, communal/shared Fresher facilities are going to be an absolute necessity.

Why do I say that?
Well ...

This is my idea of a 3x2 deck squares single occupancy stateroom.
You've got (moving clockwise from bottom left corner):

1. Desk (1 square)
2. Bed with storage closet (2 squares)
3. Shower (1 square)
4. Sink plus Toilet with sink combination (1 square)
5. Sliding door (to the Fresher area)
6. Walk space (1 square)
7. Sliding door (to the Corridor outside)

As you can see, there isn't a whole lot of walking space available after putting all that "stuff" inside the Stateroom space.

Cut that down to a mere 2x2 deck squares of available space and you've got room for:

1. Double Bunk Beds (2 squares)
2. Combination shower, sink toilet (1 square)
3. Walk space (1 square)
4. Sliding door (to the corridor outside)

If you even want to have a desk and a chair in a double bunked 2x2 room, there's no remaining floor space for walk access. You basically need to move the Fresher facilities OUT of the room and into a communal shared fresher space (with showers, sinks and toilets) for more of a "dorm shared bathroom" style of accommodations. In terms of practicality though, you really want to be doing something like having a single 2x2 communal Fresher (with 2 showers, 2 sinks and 2 toilet with sink combinations) per 2-4 double bunked 2x2 staterooms ... so one Fresher per 4-8 people.

Depending on the "crew density" in the deck plan, the shared Fresher facilities can wind up being an overall deck space savings ... depending on how all of the elements are arranged.

Before working with Geomorphs snippets like I've been doing this past month, I had the overall impression that 3x2 squares staterooms were "officer accommodations" while 2x2 staterooms were more like "enlisted ratings accommodations" by comparison. The simple fact of the matter is that a 3m by 3m room (almost 10 ft by 10 ft) can barely be dignified with the name "broom closet" in terms of living space (it's not even 100 ft²) especially if you're expected to sleep in it horizontally (under simulated gravity) ... and particularly if you need to share that space with another member of the crew. Half the room's floor area gets taken up by Bed Space, even if you're talking about a fold out from the wall bed.

Makes me realize just how CRAMPED the accommodations aboard a Type-J Seeker must be compared to a Type-S Scout/Courier.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Murphy Bed. (Wikpedia) Make them twin-size (38"x75"), bunk beds, hinged on the long edge.

There's room for a fold-away sink over a retractable (last-resort use only) toilet that lacks privacy from the rest of the space (think "campervan restroom facilities") but you could maybe hang a sheet or something if you needed to. Primary toilets/showers are shared. Chairs and desktops fold for storage.

It's an Ikea broom closet, or a Swiss Army Bedroom.

Still rather cozy, though. In something like the Type J (or anything else with double-occupancy and no economy of scale), double-occupancy may require sleeping in shifts (hot-bunking).

I'm not sure how a maxed-out 8-character PC party can fit into a Type S for weeks at a time without someone ending up on the wrong side of the airlock... I mean, it's a thing (convention scenario, lots of participants using all the pre-gen'd characters, scenario specifies a scoutship, what'cha gonna do?) but in practice it's not gonna work out for more than a few jumps.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Still rather cozy, though. In something like the Type J (or anything else with double-occupancy and no economy of scale), double-occupancy may require sleeping in shifts (hot-bunking).

I figure that the Type-J explicitly DOES operate in shifts.

According to CT Beltstrike p4 ... while prospecting everything gets recorded for bookkeeping purposes in 6 hour shifts (so 4 shifts per day). Essentially, each 6 hour shift worked reduces endurance by -2 ... and each 6 hour rest period recovers +2 endurance.

So if you're working a grueling 12 hours on/6 hours off shift cycle (18 hours total), you're going to be working -4/+2 END cycles until reaching exhaustion at 0 END, at which point you simply cannot continue working without (more) rest cycles. This means that an 18 hours work cycle on repeat will lead to burnout of crew within days.

The obvious counter to this kind of thing would be running two crews ... 12 hours on (-4 END) and 12 hours off (+4 END) where everyone requires 5+ END in order to be able to perform their shift duties as prospectors (so no one reaches 0 END by the end of their work shifts).

For us landlubber Players, that basically amounts to a Day Shift/Night Shift crew arrangement where the two crews essentially hand off to each other every 12 hours. This would also explain why the Type-J Seeker is intended to operate with a crew of 1 with 3 passengers (basically, two crews of 2 each). Everyone does get their own single stateroom, however.

Note that in the context of the Type-J Seeker this essentially means continuous manning by a crew of 4 operating in shifts. That gives you:

1. Pilot (day)
2. Gunner (day)
3. Pilot (night)
4. Gunner (night)

Yes, everyone is living in each other's pockets for long periods of time (potentially up to a year between annual overhaul maintenance cycles), but 50 weeks of life support for 8 people is 400 person/weeks ... which at 150 person/weeks per ton (CT Beltstrike, p3) can fit into less than 3 tons of cargo space (more like 2.7 tons for 405 person/weeks) for an extended prospecting sojourn between annual overhauls. Throw in a 30 ton capacity Collapsible Fuel Tank (add 0.3 tons) and you're left with a 30 ton cargo bay.

Hmmm ...
I might have to attempt a "rebuild" of the Type-J Seeker now.
Just looking at LBB S7 p47, I'm already seeing some minor errors (like Crew=1 instead of Crew=2 so as to account for the Gunner) that could use a touch up.

Also, it would be incredibly SWEET to modify the Type-J Seeker deck plan to incorporate a 30 ton Modular Cutter Module in the center (staterooms would need to move outboard, obviously) which could then be reconfigured for all kinds of purposes depending on mission ... not just as a Belter/Prospector.

Yes ... that looks VERY promising as a new ship design project ...
Especially now that I can produce a deck plan for it.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Yes, it's cramped. Now consider small craft accommodations, at 2 Dt per person or even shared for two people.

To plan cramped staterooms we need a finer grid than 1.5 m squares. To give space for communal spaces, a cabin can't really be larger than 2 Dt, four squares.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

We can do something compact, e.g.:

Extra-wide bed, roomy shower stall, lockers for two, and table; all in four squares. There is even wasted space around the entrance...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Bigger bed, bigger lockers, loads of space?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Spacious?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

We could even do a separate shower stall and toilet?


With the beds and table folded up we would have 2 m × 3 m free space!

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Think in 3D. Remember that we have 2.5 m standard deck height to play with.

We could have elevated loft beds with say 1.75 m space below for desks and lockers:


Now we have space for a washer/dryer and a kichenette too.