TNE Flame War ;)

[Malenfant]

This thread started out as (hypothetical) What would you ask Dave Nilsen? has which since devolved into a flame war. As such I have retitled it, and editied this first post to reflect it's actual topic! So if you want to participate in the flaming one one side or the other feel free to join in!

BUT KEEP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS OUT OF IT

The (hypothetical) What would you ask Dave Nilsen? thread has been restarted by me elsewhere in the THE forum.

Hunter

[ October 24, 2004, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: hunter ]

 

[shield]

Just 2 questions

1. Justify the rebellion / hardtimes / collapse with somemore details (virus transmittal, economic collapse, how the aslan / vargr rabble overcame imperial fleets.

2. What was the grand sweep of future history for the NE.


talk about vague, broad questions

Cheers
Richard

 

[mike wightman]

How would you have resolved the Empress Wave.

Ok, an obvious question, but I'd really like to know if it was a planned or make it up as you go along thing

 

[mike wightman]

What's inside the black curtain?

 

[mike wightman]

Other than the Hivers, the RC, and the Regency, were there any other islands of civilization?

 

[mike wightman]

Were there any plans for a fourth Imperium?

 

[kafka47]

Just a few...and if anyone can contact him...why not consolidate them and ask...

1. How were the various fan based efforts eg. Children of Earth or Candles Against the Night fit into the scheme of the unfolding universe of the New Era?

2. Is it possible that the Black Curtain would undertake an expansion?

3. Why make the Regency so ommipotent for what in most of Traveller was a Provincial backwater?

4. Did he ever see proofs or outlines of the Brunette novels, if so what was the third one to include?

5. What role did the Guild play in the Wilds beyond the RC Area of Operations? Were they the last vestages of civilization or just a local mafia that grown powerful due to their access to Starships?

6. What became of Lucan? (I know MJD's answer but would be interested in Dave's

7. What about Grandfather and the whole Ancients story arc in TNE? Were the Droyne left finally to grow up?

8. Was there any thought of linking the multiple games that GDW produced into a coherent universe but one with shattered dimensions operating with different assumptions? For example, linking Traveller with Dark Conspiracy or having the French Peace of T2000 result in a Near Earth Campaign for 2300AD?

9. What motivated you as a designer to destroy/explode everything in the Imperial Campaign rather opt for a slower implosion...Hard Times resulting in stagnation aka Wounded Colosses-type scenario.

10. What future products were already sketched out and or near compliation at the time of GDW closure and would he consider bringing them out under the Quicklink banner (after some modification due to MJD's efforts)?

11. What does he think of Traveller today? Is it as dynamic as he would want it or was TNE the only way to energize the Traveller milieu and make it Darker?

 

[jchurchill]

Why would anyone let him near Traveller in the first place?

What is it like to be the ultimate destroyer of a great game?

 

[mike wightman]

(and assume you can only ask serious questions and that you can't fling accusations either)

 

[mike wightman]

Or, to use an rpgnet-ism stop thread crapping

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by secretagent:
Why would anyone let him near Traveller in the first place?

What is it like to be the ultimate destroyer of a great game?

There just had to be one, didn't there...

Note I said "serious questions only and no accusation flinging". Which basically means "no whining about destroying Traveller" and "no screaming HERETIC! while waving pitchforks and burning torches". Is that perhaps clear now?

I suspect there are still people who would love to have 10 minutes alone with him in a locked room if he showed up again. This despite it being about 10 years after the event. And despite the fact that Dave Nilsen was not the only writer or even the only person responsible for TNE and Virus.

If you're one of those people, then kindly get the heck away from this thread (and from this board, and maybe even from this hobby too). And seek help too, because you really need to get over it - if you are still that pissed over a freakin' game then you have some serious anger management issues.

 

[Malenfant]

Ahem.

I'd wanna ask him what he thought of the 1248 stuff, and if that was the direction that he would have taken the setting if he had his way.

 

[robject]

You know, he hasn't answered a lot of the milieu-specific mysteries, because (IIRC) he wanted the option to continue the story.

But I suppose his chances of doing that are becoming more limited now.

 

[Malenfant]

That's true...

 

[aramis]

Was it fun destroying the most popular SciFi Setting in print?

What is the appeal of Postholocaust gaming (cause I never got it)?

Why did you take a tongue in cheek/comical attitude about aliens in Traveller?

Why did the Regency have to look more and more like USA and less and less like the 3I's last pocket?

Dave Nilsen loved the controversy... he'd post teasers just to start flame-wars... I doubt he acutally had resolutions for some of it.

 

[Malenfant]

Do people have reading comprehension problems here or something?

It's funny how Joe Fugate gets reasonable questions, but as soon as Dave Nilsen is even mentioned, out come the bile-filled TNE haters who want to piss on things...

What's even worse is that some people actually seem to have decided to make it into something personal against Nilsen himself. You especially Aramis - you seem to think you know what Dave Nilsen was thinking about everything, when in fact you don't. From the picture you paint of the man, anyone would think he was a monster. Joe had been lurking here a while - what if Dave is too? Where do you get off slagging the man off all the time? How do you think he'd feel reading some of the bile you throw up? It's utterly pathetic and totally immature.

Honestly, considering that most Traveller fans are over the age of 35, there seems to be quite a few who act like whiny spoilt 10-year old brats. It's no different to throwing a strop and screaming "Wah! You broke my favourite toy! We hates you! We hates you!". Jeez. It's 10 years gone, for crying out loud - GET OVER IT!

For all that he supposedly "destroyed Traveller", it's funny how it's still going strong in its "Golden Age" incarnation today, isn't it? Despite your whining, the game is still going strong today. So why don't you TNE and Nilsen haters give us all a break, grow up, shut up, go play with your shiny 3I universe, and just drop the hate once and for all?

 

[Hyphen]

Dear Folks -

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Do people have reading comprehension problems here or something?

It's funny how Joe Fugate gets reasonable questions, but as soon as Dave Nilsen is even mentioned...

...etc etc.

Agreed. If you don't want to be civil, go jump.

(Or is that statement too self-referential... )

FWIW, it's interesting that the move to ONE rules system for all the GDW worldsystems is EXACTLY what d20 is all about - has anyone realised that? I guess that means that GDW was ahead of the trend, here. The only difference is that D&D is so big that porting the d20 system to run other RPG's is more like a method of conquest...

In any case, even if you didn't like the TNE setting or the rules changes, Dave also wrote some of the material that fans have consistently rated the BEST: Survival Margin and The Regency Sourcebook.

Have some respect.

+-+-+-+-+-+

Some answers are already known: the then-GDW staff did not believe that any one faction deserved to "win" the Rebellion. Adding in their desire to support only one ruleset led to the decision to wipe the slate clean and begin again.

Virus was simply a means to do this.

Note: if they hadn't wanted to be clever and actually reuse part of their canon (ie. the Signal GK adventure, married to the already-canonical transponders) to do this, they would have used something else instead. In other words, you are criticising something that was just a game-background mechanic, rather than something that really broke the rules.

+-+-+-+-+-+

Now, how about some sensible responses, people?

Here's some:

1. What had he planned for Avery in 1201? Had he met up with the Empress Wave and found out what it was - maybe even mitigating its effects on the Regency?
2. What story arc was planned for the Droyne? Were they helping Avery to create a psi buffer around the Regency?
3. What did he have planned for when the Regency and RC met?

 

[Thelor]

Chiming in: Some questions are repeated but still

1. What other pocket civilisations where out there?
2. Would the Soleean Empire defeat the RC or what was his plans for them both when meeting?
3. What was his plans for the Black curtain?
4. What was his plans for the benign Sandman-type strain viruses?
5. What was the idea and impact on the universe with the Empress wave?
6. A 4th empire? How big? How stable? Location? What about its neighbours?
7. I also want to know how Vargr and Aslan countered firstly Virus and then Imperial fleets.

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Hyphen:
FWIW, it's interesting that the move to ONE rules system for all the GDW worldsystems is EXACTLY what d20 is all about - has anyone realised that? I guess that means that GDW was ahead of the trend, here. The only difference is that D&D is so big that porting the d20 system to run other RPG's is more like a method of conquest...

Not exactly. A house rules system present in most games by a company dates back to at least BRP by Chaosium in the early 80's, Palladium games, RTG's Interlock etc. and was in vogue when TNE/TW2K 2.2 etc. came out. D20/OGL uses a later related concept ala Champions/Hero, Fuzion, Gurps and the like where the base rules are made available separately* from any implementation of them. The main difference is WotC made most of those rules freely available for use by publishers instead of charging a license. Even that isn't new since Fudge has a similar concept. Anywho, back on topic...

In any case, even if you didn't like the TNE setting or the rules changes, Dave also wrote some of the material that fans have consistently rated the BEST: Survival Margin and The Regency Sourcebook.

While I don't have the latter I do have Survival Margin and it is a fine book. Kudos to DN on that.

I would ask DN if he would be interested in writing any more RPG material, in general or for TNE or 1248.

Casey

* okay, Chaosium did put BRP booklets in early versions of some of their games but soon dropped the idea.

 

[daryen]

I have one.

For all of the detractors you have, you had many more fans. While TNE alienated many fans, it was successful enough to remain a viable gaming system well past the end. (TNE did not kill GDW. TNE was doing fine. It was the death of GDW that ended up causing the end of TNE.)

You obviously had a plan for where TNE was going. The RC was obviously intended as a temporary polity that would either evolve or be replaced. And the Regency was just waiting to explode. You obviously intended for things to move forward and go somewhere.

So, to get to the question, why have you not revealed, in any form or forum, what you had intended? Ten years is a long time to hold on to something. Sure, I understand that in the beginning you probably planned on trying to do it in a fashion that would generate at least a little money. But as time passed, didn't it become more and more clear that that goal was becoming unattainable?

So, at this point, why the secrecy? What is gained (for you) by this? Did you just get disgusted with the reactions like those two above and just drop the game? Or do you still harbor hope to make that knowledge profitable somehow?

In summary, why does Dave Nielson not want anyone to know what Dave Nielson's vision for TNE is/was?