Merchants Run

[Fritz_Brown]

OK, Dan, I see the spot now. The only problem is that isn't a dTon - its a metric ton of mass. I still think it's pretty ludicrous as the passenger doesn't get any more room for his stuff. I think this is a SNAFU in LBB2 - there is no provision for mass-based concerns, how does the same 4dT stateroom have "better accomodations" for a Hi-Pax than a Mid-Pax (the "Magic Fingers" is free?), how does the steward know who to shun (he's not supposed to talk to Mid-Pax), etc.

And, BTW, 1000kg of cork would probably only take 1/2 - 1/3dTon. Clothes, lamps, furniture, etc. would be significantly smaller than a 1/2dTon.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

OK, Dan, I see the spot now. The only problem is that isn't a dTon - its a metric ton of mass. I still think it's pretty ludicrous as the passenger doesn't get any more room for his stuff. I think this is a SNAFU in LBB2 - there is no provision for mass-based concerns, how does the same 4dT stateroom have "better accomodations" for a Hi-Pax than a Mid-Pax (the "Magic Fingers" is free?), how does the steward know who to shun (he's not supposed to talk to Mid-Pax), etc.

And, BTW, 1000kg of cork would probably only take 1/2 - 1/3dTon. Clothes, lamps, furniture, etc. would be significantly smaller than a 1/2dTon.

 

[mike wightman]

In CT a ship ton is 1000kg by mass according to the Trade and Commerce chapter examples.

 

[mike wightman]

In CT a ship ton is 1000kg by mass according to the Trade and Commerce chapter examples.

 

[mike wightman]

A jump duration of 150-175 hours was introduced in High Guard.

 

[mike wightman]

A jump duration of 150-175 hours was introduced in High Guard.

 

[fredofmars]

Originally posted by boomslang:
<snip>The 168 hours plus/minus 10% was introduced in MWM's "Jumpspace" article in dead-tree JTAS. Given all the additional headaches that article created while trying to solve some problems, I have always considered it a "variant". The possibly-more-than-a-week-long jumps are also part of the SOM, IIRC.<snip>

Since it is by MWM, I tend to regard it as holy writ on the order of carved-in-stone-by-finger-of-deity (for the OTU of course). IMTU may be slightly different. Variant would refer to anything not in the OTU (including the concept of flat 150 hours in jump). I do think the flat time in jump is an interesting idea though.

 

[fredofmars]

Originally posted by boomslang:
<snip>The 168 hours plus/minus 10% was introduced in MWM's "Jumpspace" article in dead-tree JTAS. Given all the additional headaches that article created while trying to solve some problems, I have always considered it a "variant". The possibly-more-than-a-week-long jumps are also part of the SOM, IIRC.<snip>

Since it is by MWM, I tend to regard it as holy writ on the order of carved-in-stone-by-finger-of-deity (for the OTU of course). IMTU may be slightly different. Variant would refer to anything not in the OTU (including the concept of flat 150 hours in jump). I do think the flat time in jump is an interesting idea though.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
In CT a ship ton is 1000kg by mass according to the Trade and Commerce chapter examples.

I think I see what you mean on page 48 (the shotguns), but it's still sort of implied, rather than explicitly stated. Either way, it's a stupid number since you would have to be shipping liquid hydrogen for 1000kg = 14m^3. Something as simple as 1dT of rice would mass 2.2tons even if you assume a 1m buffer zone around the entire crate (except the bottom). Salt or soap would run 3.2tons, ebony wood would run 4tons, paper would run 4.8tons, uranium ore would fetch 20+tons, etc.

I'll shut up now, but that is a serious problem in my book (for several reasons).

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
In CT a ship ton is 1000kg by mass according to the Trade and Commerce chapter examples.

I think I see what you mean on page 48 (the shotguns), but it's still sort of implied, rather than explicitly stated. Either way, it's a stupid number since you would have to be shipping liquid hydrogen for 1000kg = 14m^3. Something as simple as 1dT of rice would mass 2.2tons even if you assume a 1m buffer zone around the entire crate (except the bottom). Salt or soap would run 3.2tons, ebony wood would run 4tons, paper would run 4.8tons, uranium ore would fetch 20+tons, etc.

I'll shut up now, but that is a serious problem in my book (for several reasons).

 

[JAFARR]

I have been purusing over my LBB 0 to 8 reprint, which is 2nd edition. Trade and commerce is pp 46 - 48. Cargo tables are on p 11. No where do I find the die role for # of pallets. Major cargo is stipulated as being 10 times the die roll tons, etc. Is this a change from 1st edition? Also it states that cargo cannot be subdivided (from Starship Economics on pp 7 & 8) while the Trade and Speculation tables on pp 46 to 48 states that the quanity column value is times 5 to determine tons which can be divided at a cost of 1% (of what? the total cost or the cost of the amount that you buy?). Then we get to Merchant Prince which has a roll for freight and a roll for cargo or is that From MT? MT mentions a last minute attempt to find cargo. Do these come up in LLB2 1st edition? Please clarify the procedure we will use for this cometition.

 

[JAFARR]

I have been purusing over my LBB 0 to 8 reprint, which is 2nd edition. Trade and commerce is pp 46 - 48. Cargo tables are on p 11. No where do I find the die role for # of pallets. Major cargo is stipulated as being 10 times the die roll tons, etc. Is this a change from 1st edition? Also it states that cargo cannot be subdivided (from Starship Economics on pp 7 & 8) while the Trade and Speculation tables on pp 46 to 48 states that the quanity column value is times 5 to determine tons which can be divided at a cost of 1% (of what? the total cost or the cost of the amount that you buy?). Then we get to Merchant Prince which has a roll for freight and a roll for cargo or is that From MT? MT mentions a last minute attempt to find cargo. Do these come up in LLB2 1st edition? Please clarify the procedure we will use for this cometition.

 

[BillDowns]

Well, 1st edition doesn't have the major/minor/whatever division. Its simply the number of dice equal to destination population, apply some DMs, and the number rolled is times 5 tons, one die being a shipment. A shipment can't be broken up - its all or none.

Example, you're heading to a pop 3 world, so you roll 3d6, getting a 2,3, and 6. So there are 3 shipments, the first of 10 tons, then 15 tons, then 30 tons. If you only had room for, say, 35 tons, you take the 30-ton shipment or the 10 and 15 tons shipments.

But, Far-trader said we'll use 2nd edition, so you are okay.

 

[BillDowns]

Well, 1st edition doesn't have the major/minor/whatever division. Its simply the number of dice equal to destination population, apply some DMs, and the number rolled is times 5 tons, one die being a shipment. A shipment can't be broken up - its all or none.

Example, you're heading to a pop 3 world, so you roll 3d6, getting a 2,3, and 6. So there are 3 shipments, the first of 10 tons, then 15 tons, then 30 tons. If you only had room for, say, 35 tons, you take the 30-ton shipment or the 10 and 15 tons shipments.

But, Far-trader said we'll use 2nd edition, so you are okay.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Andy Fralix:
No where do I find the die role for # of pallets.

My fault for sowing confusion in an effort to clarify

The "pallet" term is my own to try to distinguish the seperation of the number of lots and the individual lot sizes.

On second read maybe it wasn't "pallets" that was confusing you but you just couldn't find the text I was trying to illustrate. It's pg 8 Revenue-Cargo...

"...roll to determine the number of major, minor, and incidental cargos available..."

"...after rolling the number of cargos, roll one die for each cargo to determine its size..."

"...multiply the die roll for major cargos by 10..."

Originally posted by Andy Fralix:
Major cargo is stipulated as being 10 times the die roll tons, etc. Is this a change from 1st edition?

Yep, 1st edition is quite different, as Billy notes above.

I'm not positive from your statement above that my attempt to clarify was understood. A short example might be the best.

Checking cargo on a Pop 4 world we see that for the Major cargos we roll 2D-1D and our destination has a DM+3 because it is Pop 9.

We roll and get 2+4-5 with a DM+3 for 4 Major cargo lots. The lots cannot be broken up and each must be taken or passed in whole, but first we need to find how big the lots are.

For each lot we roll 1Dx10tons (with no DMs) and get 30tons for lot 1, 40tons for lot 2, 10tons for lot 3, and 60tons for lot 4.

The same procedure applies to Minor and Incidental cargo.

For speculative cargo you get one roll per week but do not have to take the whole available shipment, just as many tons (or single items in the case of vehicles and such, items 51-56) as you want. There is a handling fee of 1% of the final value of the amount purchased when taking less than the full shipment.

So to clarify and confirm we will be using Book 2 2nd edition. I'm short for time at the moment and need to get some sleep before I hit the road for a weekend away. I'll be able to answer any more questions or better explain next week.

First thing I want to do next week though is throw together an example of what I'm looking for in the way of design and prospectus format for submission.

Hope that helped rather than confused again

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Andy Fralix:
No where do I find the die role for # of pallets.

My fault for sowing confusion in an effort to clarify

The "pallet" term is my own to try to distinguish the seperation of the number of lots and the individual lot sizes.

On second read maybe it wasn't "pallets" that was confusing you but you just couldn't find the text I was trying to illustrate. It's pg 8 Revenue-Cargo...

"...roll to determine the number of major, minor, and incidental cargos available..."

"...after rolling the number of cargos, roll one die for each cargo to determine its size..."

"...multiply the die roll for major cargos by 10..."

Originally posted by Andy Fralix:
Major cargo is stipulated as being 10 times the die roll tons, etc. Is this a change from 1st edition?

Yep, 1st edition is quite different, as Billy notes above.

I'm not positive from your statement above that my attempt to clarify was understood. A short example might be the best.

Checking cargo on a Pop 4 world we see that for the Major cargos we roll 2D-1D and our destination has a DM+3 because it is Pop 9.

We roll and get 2+4-5 with a DM+3 for 4 Major cargo lots. The lots cannot be broken up and each must be taken or passed in whole, but first we need to find how big the lots are.

For each lot we roll 1Dx10tons (with no DMs) and get 30tons for lot 1, 40tons for lot 2, 10tons for lot 3, and 60tons for lot 4.

The same procedure applies to Minor and Incidental cargo.

For speculative cargo you get one roll per week but do not have to take the whole available shipment, just as many tons (or single items in the case of vehicles and such, items 51-56) as you want. There is a handling fee of 1% of the final value of the amount purchased when taking less than the full shipment.

So to clarify and confirm we will be using Book 2 2nd edition. I'm short for time at the moment and need to get some sleep before I hit the road for a weekend away. I'll be able to answer any more questions or better explain next week.

First thing I want to do next week though is throw together an example of what I'm looking for in the way of design and prospectus format for submission.

Hope that helped rather than confused again

 

[JAFARR]

Thanks, It did. That is the way I have always done it. How ever it looks like I may not be able to take part as I just took a second job. It's
church janitor 'cause the company we had doing it wasn't doing that good of a job. My wife and I just finished it for this week and I am guessing it took about 8 hours all told. It really depends on what day I get off from my first job as to how much I (we) have to do a night. Guess I'll just have to see how it works out.

Another thought:
High passage requires 5 dtn per passenger when you figure in the baggage space. It pays 8000 Cr after expenses. Net income 1600 Cr per dtn.
Med passage requires 4.1 dtn per passenger. It pays 6000 Cr. Net income 1463.5 Cr. per dtn.
Difference is 136.5 Cr. Times 8 Hi passengers per steward. Equals 1092 Cr times 2 jumps per month equals 2184 Cr income steward brings in for a ship. Steward 0 pay is 3000 per month. Looks like High passengers loose you money compared to medium passengers.

 

[JAFARR]

Thanks, It did. That is the way I have always done it. How ever it looks like I may not be able to take part as I just took a second job. It's
church janitor 'cause the company we had doing it wasn't doing that good of a job. My wife and I just finished it for this week and I am guessing it took about 8 hours all told. It really depends on what day I get off from my first job as to how much I (we) have to do a night. Guess I'll just have to see how it works out.

Another thought:
High passage requires 5 dtn per passenger when you figure in the baggage space. It pays 8000 Cr after expenses. Net income 1600 Cr per dtn.
Med passage requires 4.1 dtn per passenger. It pays 6000 Cr. Net income 1463.5 Cr. per dtn.
Difference is 136.5 Cr. Times 8 Hi passengers per steward. Equals 1092 Cr times 2 jumps per month equals 2184 Cr income steward brings in for a ship. Steward 0 pay is 3000 per month. Looks like High passengers loose you money compared to medium passengers.

 

[mike wightman]

Here's the drive potential table from LBB2 second edition:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">hull A B C D E F G H J K L M N P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
100 2 4 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
200 1 2 3 4 5 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
300 - 1 2 2 3 4 4 5 6 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
400 - 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 - - - - - - - - - - -
500 - - 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 6 6 6 - - - - - - -
600 - - 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 6 - - - -
700 - - - 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 - -
800 - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 6 6 6
900 - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 6 6 6
1000 - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 4 5 6 6 6
1100 - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 5 6 6
1200 - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 5 6 6
1300 - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 4 6 6
1400 - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 5 6
1500 - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 5 6
1600 - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 5 6
1700 - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 6
1800 - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 4 6
1900 - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 4 6
2000 - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 4 6
2100 - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 5
2200 - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 5
2300 - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 5
2400 - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 5
2500 - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 4
2600 - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4
2700 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 4
2800 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 4
2900 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 4
3000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 4
3100 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3200 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3300 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3400 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3500 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3600 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3700 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 3
3800 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 3
3900 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 2 3
4000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 2 3
5000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 2</pre>[/QUOTE]Ignore the entries for hulls that don't exist in LBB2 first edition - or edit them out of the table - since I made them up

 

[mike wightman]

Here's the drive potential table from LBB2 second edition:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">hull A B C D E F G H J K L M N P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
100 2 4 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
200 1 2 3 4 5 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
300 - 1 2 2 3 4 4 5 6 6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
400 - 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 - - - - - - - - - - -
500 - - 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 6 6 6 - - - - - - -
600 - - 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 6 - - - -
700 - - - 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 - -
800 - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 6 6 6
900 - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 6 6 6
1000 - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 4 5 6 6 6
1100 - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 5 6 6
1200 - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 5 6 6
1300 - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 4 6 6
1400 - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 5 6
1500 - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 5 6
1600 - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 5 6
1700 - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 6
1800 - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 4 6
1900 - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 4 6
2000 - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 4 6
2100 - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 5
2200 - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 5
2300 - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 5
2400 - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 5
2500 - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 4
2600 - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4
2700 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 4
2800 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 4
2900 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 4
3000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 4
3100 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3200 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3300 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3400 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3500 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3600 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3700 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 3
3800 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 3
3900 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 2 3
4000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 2 3
5000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 2</pre>[/QUOTE]Ignore the entries for hulls that don't exist in LBB2 first edition - or edit them out of the table - since I made them up