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Does Classic Traveller need an update?

Does Classic Traveller need an update?


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Having CT updated (and hopefully Books 4-7 as well) would be grand. I would join a kickstarter for that with both feet and a hefty donation.

Including Books 4-7, I'd want all chargen to have equal options: all careers in basic chargen, and all careers in advanced chargen; at campaign start the choice is made: all PCs and NPCs are basic chargen or advanced chargen; no mixing of kinds.

(Obviously, house rules can be whatever the table will bear.)
 
No, it's just fine as it is, sort of set in stone. Make house rules if you want to change things.
 
I'm not sure CT would get any new material for the same reason 1st ed D&D won't: it's been superseded by newer editions. Yes, people still play it, and yes, people are making their own updates, clarifications, and house rules, as well as cherry-picking the good stuff from later editions. But you're not going to see new official published material come out beyond (perhaps) some very periphery supplemental material (like SS4 from the CD).

MT and MgT is maybe the closest you have, as their mechanics are the most similar.
 
I'd like to see a T6 do for Traveller what 5eD&D has done for D&D - back to basics but with a slick, simple core gaming system based on lessons learned for previous editions and extensive playtest feedback.
 
I'd like to see a T6 do for Traveller what 5eD&D has done for D&D - back to basics but with a slick, simple core gaming system based on lessons learned for previous editions and extensive playtest feedback.

There was a mock up version of Traveller 5 back in the day that looked really cool with D-ring binders used. I think Traveller 6 should use that design.
 
There was a mock up version of Traveller 5 back in the day that looked really cool with D-ring binders used. I think Traveller 6 should use that design.

A survey was run on that. The 5% who loved it were well outweighed by the 50% who hated it.

Also note: The biggest complaint ever about D&D print quality was the Monstrous Compendium for AD&D 2E... binders lose pages far, far more readily than bound books; sometimes even during shipping.

And, if you want a binder mode, Wal*Mart carries pre-punched printer paper...
 
I've never had any issues with 3-ring binders. All my mainframe programming manuals had them. Not much reason to be opening the rings anyway. A different method would have to be used for playtesting Traveller 6. Something way different than how Traveller 5 has handled, cause we all know how that turned out.
 
So many attempts to "update" the original game?
I wonder...
Do you think Classic Traveller needs an update?
Traveller, like D&D is one of the most influential games of my childhood. It was published the same year I stood in line for Star Wars. We used Legos for our ships, measured string for movement just like our Civil War miniatures, and stored data on cassettes using a TRS-80. Now we have Roll20, game with people 7900 miles away daily, and IBM is working out the storage of a bit on the space of a dozen atoms. The times they aren't just a changing - they have phenomenally predicated the inconceivable.

Frank Herbert wrote a story set 10,000 years in a future wherein humanity had manipulated their genetics in the search of the profitable, perfected, and the messianic - and he made it clear that what ever we create it will supplant us. But we do not need 10 millenniums to accomplish this, we only need to weaponize stem-cell research for mass-destruction within the next 30 years.

What will happen when we can store a googleplex in the space of a subatomic string? Will we be able to program spontaneously generating DNA? Will we create sensory organs for the remaining 11 dimensions? Will we discover supplemental formats to the dimensions we only currently postulate?

Asimov predicated Foundation and Empire on scientific projections limited in capacity to what we can now reasonably expect - with the most recent Battlestar Galactica being a logical conclusion for his concerns about AI operating independently in organic society.

Why should we estimate the drives of sophant species will continue to be based in the scarcity of consumable energy, reproduction, or the fear of death? A hive mind has no reason to fear the death of an individual anymore than a person fears the death of a single cell in their body. If energy can be drawn from the interchange of matter and dark matter (assuming this is not an obsolete theory born from our own ignorance) what is dark life?

If the answer is yes, then Traveller does not need updated. If the answer is no then Traveller is falling short of its potential. And I say this with no disrespect, for while it did not inspire me (a child of librarians, artists, and musicians) to become a scientists I developed an appreciation for the sciences I would never otherwise of had and a reason to learn about them outside of the drudgery forced education could never have inspired.

That said - I would update the art. Traveller has always been based in certain styles of art which are nostalgic to some of us. Many of the sketches seem reminiscent of ads from the late 1940s through the early 1960s. There is even a similar limitation in cultural and racial dispersion throughout it's content. What of the Blue Star of India from Roger Zelazny's The Lord of Light? Or a Chinese influence, as a fifth of the world's population (and hence its) market is Chinese? What remnants of the East African Confederacy of Bantu, who became the third colonial power to establish on Mars, can we see? Where are the Prince Charlie formals, with Kilts, which became the foundation for high-class dress under the Pax Edina - when Edinburgh became the capitol of the world (Starship Troopers, Robert Heinlein)? With the rebirth of their own written language will the Maya assert their identity and rise to an interstellar superpower?

Would the emblems and background stories of the past editions keep up with such a vibrant collection of societies? I already know those symbols do not readily scale for use as small icons for VOIP programs. Can something derived from the current symbols be developed which is both vibrant and modern within the current standard for commercial graphic arts and yet carry the class, dignity, and simplicity at the transition between Art Nouveau and Art Decco?

I would update the epic. Currently the story seems linear, not organic. Universal empire originates in the sudden appearance of one person who is a genius, bellicose, and makes himself immortal? From this self-made God all else follows? It reminds me of this Greek mathematician who creates a parable using the math of music composition to describe how a system can naturally generate disharmony which results in the destruction of the system. Ever since people have been diving all over the world to find his fictitious land of Atlantis and attributing every indication of prehistorical civilizations to something that never was.

So, would I update the game?

  1. Could the stories and histories reflect a more global and entertaining idea of humanity?
  2. Could the epic represent more possibilities for both the human and the inhuman in an organic history where both the cart (economic materialism) and the horse (ethical deliberations) are directed by the driver (individuals holding the many many different reigns in the various factions and species)?
  3. Could the art be better suited to today's market and electronic media?
  4. If a 10 year old were to get Traveller today would it open their minds to the current concepts and possibilities of science that will lead them into the New Far Future?

If the answer to these questions is yes, then the answer to a need to update that part of the game is yes.


EDIT: When I got Megatraveller - I read a few pages, glanced through a bunch more, and put it on the shelf in my collection. When I got 2300, I did the same. What made Classic Traveller and early D&D and Chainmail and many other games so much more fun was that you could find out what you needed to know in 20 minutes and get started. It was the small supplements and books offering possibility, not necessity, which made the game something I could do with my allowance. And in exchange all I had to do was spend hours learning how to socialize, dramatize, narrate, produce, and research the science well enough to make my descriptions credible. That is the part we need from CT.
 
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Most people that are interested in Traveller, before ever opening its box or ever reading its rules, are sci-fi fans first. The question is, what kind of sci-fi are they fans of. That will be where the improvements to the game are done, if any.

Or someone can just make a sci-fi RPG that uses the Mongoose Traveller rules that future sci-fi gamers are interested in.
 
Most people that are interested in Traveller, before ever opening its box or ever reading its rules, are sci-fi fans first. The question is, what kind of sci-fi are they fans of. That will be where the improvements to the game are done, if any.

Or someone can just make a sci-fi RPG that uses the Mongoose Traveller rules that future sci-fi gamers are interested in.
If they like Science Fiction it is to be hoped they like science. I must confess, I have quit buying books other than for research reasons. I simply couldn't handle 3 spelling and 2 grammar mistakes on the back of each cover. The last book I enjoyed reading was by Noam Chomsky on Grammar. It was well written, spelled correctly, and properly arranged. But then, it was written by Noam Chomsky. <Sigh>

Wouldn't it be nice if instead of following the trend as science fantasy, Traveller was setting the stage in explorations of science possibility?
 
If they like Science Fiction it is to be hoped they like science. I must confess, I have quit buying books other than for research reasons. I simply couldn't handle 3 spelling and 2 grammar mistakes on the back of each cover. The last book I enjoyed reading was by Noam Chomsky on Grammar. It was well written, spelled correctly, and properly arranged. But then, it was written by Noam Chomsky. <Sigh>

Wouldn't it be nice if instead of following the trend as science fantasy, Traveller was setting the stage in explorations of science possibility?
There would be no sci-fi RPG industry at all, I'm afraid, if the only customers were science researchers.
 
There would be no sci-fi RPG industry at all, I'm afraid, if the only customers were science researchers.

Assuming you are using science in the colloquial sense, why would research only have to be in sciences? The skill with which a chemist applies minute differences in applications is no different than the skill with which a sculptor relinquishes the application of force to leave that perfect subtle suggestion of line - changing the form from merely female to feminine. When the application is quantified by variables for which we have no rational numbers it is merely algebra by a different formula, just as what the physicist paints has its own highlights, middle-tones, and shadows in the brilliant numbers of the Nebula.

The Chinese are said to have a proverb,"If business is slow, paint the counter." And they will paint the counter red. Red is bold. Red is sexy. Red is Caliente! - exotic, hot, spicy, energetic ... Will people only watch Science Fiction or Science Fantasy if an Amanda Tapping or Aditi Shankardass are on the cover? No, but it won't hurt!

The promotion of science has some major difficulties: 1) It promotes itself as the enemy of every inherited heritage on the planet, 2) It is easier to digest as a fantasy of swords and sorcery than as a reality of complex and solvable hard work, and 3) It almost only comes in text books from people one is forced to attend to as part of an unwilling mob.

The RPG setting is one of only two places, and the most effective one, that can counter all three of those conditions. In the RPG setting, traditional heritages can be given full faith and inclusion as sociological events to be explored scientifically using a wonderful logic pattern of "Although it is impossible, what if ..." In the RPG setting the problems and solutions from science can become the goal of the exploration in an ethically posed drama where the action is explainable and the player must explain the mechanics of their science or the sorcery will not work. And in the RPG setting it is a small group of minds interacting, debating, and arguing the merits of the conditions, the causes, the effects, and the long term results from which they are willingly entertained. Edutainment in its highest form! And it is this last - the intimate interactive debate which the other media can never achieve. I fully believe Traveller is the best possible tool my country could use to get back into the top 10 countries in the world for math and science literacy. It just needs to paint the counter red.
 
I fully believe Traveller is the best possible tool my country could use to get back into the top 10 countries in the world for math and science literacy.

I learned no science from Traveller. I learned what style of sci-fi old novels used though, like Star Viking. I'm not buying into your thoughts obviously.
 
What made Classic Traveller and early D&D and Chainmail and many other games so much more fun was that you could find out what you needed to know in 20 minutes and get started.

And in exchange all I had to do was spend hours learning how to socialize, dramatize, narrate, produce, and research the science well enough to make my descriptions credible.

That is the part we need from CT.


Withers is correct. Just tell me what I need to know, right now, and get me hooked.
 
I learned no science from Traveller. I learned what style of sci-fi old novels used though, like Star Viking. I'm not buying into your thoughts obviously.

Maybe not real science facts, but I learned vector math from Traveller, as well as acceleration equations, though I wouldn't truly understand them until many years later. I also got comfortable with the metric system (I'm in the US, and Metric was/is a second-class citizen in schools). Also, the very rudiments of engineering can be learned from star ship design. And I do mean VERY rudimentary - the idea of design choices and making trade-offs, etc. Although they seem like second nature to all of us now, they're not immediately obvious to a middle-schooler.

It's not much, but it's certainly more than you learn from any modern scifi TV show or movie.
 
I think the rules are fine, so don't mess with that. I'd like to see a nice collection of them with errata applied, new layout, strong editing, and so on.

It would cease to be "classic" Traveller, though. Neoclassic Traveller?
 
I think the rules are fine, so don't mess with that. I'd like to see a nice collection of them with errata applied, new layout, strong editing, and so on.

It would cease to be "classic" Traveller, though. Neoclassic Traveller?

The problem is "Which rules take precedence?"

The clearest issue point is Bk2 vs Bk5 and bk7. Later editions all wenth Bk5 and Bk7...
... but many of the newer CT fans are strict book 2 fans.
 
'77 or '81 ;)

And I still think a simple task system adds a lot of playability to CT rather than having to remember every single skill.
 
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