Rules and Fluff reach brake points in there development where the game can "End" with some degree of comfort, CT kept building a better and better game.
Does Classic Traveller need an update?
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Rules and Fluff reach brake points in there development where the game can "End" with some degree of comfort, CT kept building a better and better game.
I missed it too. And I missed the ressurrection.
Someone quite early in the thread made a very good point (IMO). Paraphrasing: Updating Classic Traveller is pointless -- the people who enjoy CT won't stand for (or at least they won't be able to form a consensus of what the update should be) and those who want an updated version have several to choose from already.
Hans
Ain't that the Truth.... And I thank Mongoose and all of their associated 3rd parties publishing for CT for the increased horizon. Though when I say Traveller I generally mean the 2d6 8+ system and not the 3rd Imperium setting, but it has been established that I am a Heretic.
On the other hand, Classic Traveller is quite "modular", and there's nothing stopping people from creating swappable "homerule-update" modules.
For example, I've wanted to change Book 2 ship design. I could craft a "homerule update" for that chapter alone, or even just for the design system alone, but close enough to the Book 2 spirit that it's not seen as an innovation.
And I've never liked the combat rules. I could write up a replacement "homerule update" based on T4 (or AHL for that matter) to the point that it's seen as an organic adaptation rather than an innovation.
When it becomes "innovation" a line is crossed and it fails to appeal to others, in general. It has to feel "organic" to Traveller in some way.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I think what would be good for CT is not so much a change of the rules, but some more clarification.
For example, I think many people lean towards a task system because they're not comfortable with coming up with CT throws consistently and fairly on their own. There's little information in all of CT directed at a Ref making good throws (though, there is some). I think a book that included a chapter with some good, practical advice directed at CT Ref's creating throws on the spot, and the various values of a skill level, would go a long way to helping people learn the CT method rather than changing the game with a task system.
There are other areas, too, that I think could use this type of treatment. Sensors, for example, could use some explanation in CT.
For example, I think many people lean towards a task system because they're not comfortable with coming up with CT throws consistently and fairly on their own. There's little information in all of CT directed at a Ref making good throws (though, there is some). I think a book that included a chapter with some good, practical advice directed at CT Ref's creating throws on the spot, and the various values of a skill level, would go a long way to helping people learn the CT method rather than changing the game with a task system.
There are other areas, too, that I think could use this type of treatment. Sensors, for example, could use some explanation in CT.
I'd buy that!
Heck, I'd buy a hardback reprint of TTB that just had all the errata fixed.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
You can get TTB as print on demand - the quality is excellent.
It's so great that TTB is back in print. We live in amazing times.
But, does it have the errata fixed?
I already have several copies of TTB (including some minty ones), but I'd sure like one with the errata fixed.
BTW, how's the binding on the POD one? Does it seem like it'll hold together nicely through the years?
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Book 2 ship design just needs some judicious corrections and maybe some minor additions.
Combat system, most definitely, as I have expressed elsewhere. However, my use of a combat system based on percentile die is a major difference. I am not sure how that would fit.
Probably the other area would be World Creation, with instead of generating the Star Port first, generate the World characteristics first and then use modifiers from the characteristics to generate star port and population. The other option is, if you generate the star port first, have some restrictions on the rest of the characteristics based on the type of star port. This should especially be the case if the star port is either class "A" or "B". That would be more of a "tweak" of the rules, and not a drastic change.
Mongoose does that. Almost no one has complained about that aspect.
Mongoose, with the options in place, you generate the physicals, then the population (optionally modified by the physicals), then the government and law, then the Starport and finally the TL.
So to get the latest and, IMO, cleanest version of a task resolution system one could lift that part of T5. Oh, sensors in T5 are well thought out and make sense in how they're used, and how to use them is drawn from the task system earlier in the book.
Evolve to T5.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Hmm, I will have to take a look at that then. I have not looked at Mongoose World Creation that much.
Supplement Four
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There is no way that I'd ever weight down CT with the T5 task system.
But you wouldn't need it, that's the thing.
Someone else starting out in the game won't have your now-instinctive understanding of skill use, so would likely need more structure like the task system.
To improve on CT for someone beginning to play the game, tasks would make life easier for them.
In the end, CT is a solid but old system. If it was a car, I'd make it an old Mustang: it looked very cool and racy when it first came out, but it's now aged. It goes really well, and I could have a lot of fun with it, but there are better vehicles (for gameplay!!) available now.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
That's a good point, and I do understand that most people prefer a structured task system.
I'd still prefer something like the UTP (MT's task system), the MGT task system, or the UGM.
Re-reading thru CT's combat rules, I see plenty of structure. The core mechanic is no more complicated than other Traveller combat mechanics (because they tend to take the same data into account). Edge cases get edge rules -- which is the right way to push down complexity.
Maybe tasks in CT are a bit disorganized, but I think they're more organized than not. You certainly don't need to push everything into one mold (again, edge cases can get away with exceptional rules). A little nudge in some places might be sufficient to modernize CT.
If you change it, technically, it won't be 'Classic' anymore.
That said, I'd be interested if they:
a) Included more career options in (core rules) character generation.
b) Create a universal task system.
c) Make the various systems more integrated with a universal task system, and more intuitive by extension.
That said, I'd be interested if they:
a) Included more career options in (core rules) character generation.
b) Create a universal task system.
c) Make the various systems more integrated with a universal task system, and more intuitive by extension.
Name doesn't matter. We've been calling the concept "CT Plus" and similar things for years.
More career options is tricky. Do we replace the basic careers with Advanced chargen, or do we dumb down the "Citizens" careers? If the former, do we also then expand the skill list in the core rules? How far? And how much rewriting of the skill descriptions is needed, if characters get more skills on average than they do in basic career resolution?
The universal task system did show up in Classic Traveller -- late though, and of course it wasn't edited into the core rulebook.
Integrating the rules with the task system (i.e. standardizing the rules) in general is a good idea, but what that means really depends on what each person wants. For example, the combat system cannot use the universal task profile without being completely rewritten -- and that's a can of worms that will never happen. Conforming other bits of CT to a task format would probably not have those problems, tho.
It's not that hard to convert it to the UTP... using the DGP/MT mechanics, at least. It's not a pleasant table to look at, because it's in the snapshot mode.
Since MT difficult is 11+, and we can presume a +1 from dex for dex 7 (equal to the CT midrange of +0)... that means a Difficult task is a 10+ after dex, but before skill. If we round to the nearest difficulty step, that means a DM-4 to DM-1 is difficult, a -5 to -8 is formidable, -9 to -12 is impossible. A +0 to +3 is routine, and +4 to +7 is simple. +8 or more should be automatic.
Or, to use snapshot, 0 is auto, 1-4 is simple 5-8 is Routine, 9-12 is difficult, 13-16 is formidable, 17+ is impossible
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