Man, there are some good ideas in that. Though a lot of those experiments are taking place over in the CE side of things.
Does Classic Traveller need an update?
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Man, there are some good ideas in that. Though a lot of those experiments are taking place over in the CE side of things.
So did many fans - most MegaTraveller (MT) fans had converted from CT. Either in whole or in part. And that's the thing... MT was pretty much "CT with Striker replacing High Guard, and a task system added." The ship ratings are HG compatible; you can use MT HG or CT HG without issue. The personal damage system is a hybrid of CT Bk1 and Striker/AHL. The char gen differences are in more cascades, and thus more choice in skills, as well as matching the Bks 4-7 advanced skill rates by adding Special Duty and the bonus skills on commissions, promotions, and special duty.
The biggest change of MT, tho', was that it presumed the use of the OTU. Until MGT 1e (Mongoose 1e), all other editions assumed the OTU was the setting to be used... albeit GT being an alternate version without the rebellion, but still the recognizable OTU.
MGT 1E is different enough mechanically that it's not really a "CT Updated"... but both editions are on-the-fly convertible with CT/MT characterwise, and minor conversions for ships to/from Bk2. It has a task system, and one which doesn't match the MT/TNE/T4 task labels. It has a fairly different skill list, broad and narrow in different places. Weapons damage scales similarly to CT1E... except that MGT adds the margin of to-hit rolls to the damage, and handles wounding slightly differently. Ship combat's very different, too.
CE (Cepheus Engine) is a move back towards CT from MGT1E SRD. No OTU, doesn't have the brand name, but it's
And there are a couple of games now built off of CE.
Plus, a number of older games took strong inspiration from Traveller... such as Space Opera, Worlds Beyond, SpaceMaster and others.
Vile
SOC-12
CT had pretty much integrated the OTU as a given by the time MT came on the scene, so it never struck me as a big change. Also, the later LBBs had become progressively more crunchy, so MT just looked like more of the same. It's only lately with all the evaluation of "proto-Traveller" and the 1977 LBBs that it hit home that the OTU hadn't always been baked in.
Back way before the internet we tended to view editions as natural evolution, adding to earlier editions but not rendering them obsolete. In almost every case we tended to add more and more of our favourite bits from the new game to the old game, until eventually the balance flipped and we were playing the new game with some elements of the old one. Not just Traveller, but also RuneQuest, GURPS, D&D - anything we played that had multiple editions.
Ah, those halcyon days before we'd even heard of edition wars ...
EDIT: Oh, yeah, the original question - I think CT could do with an update - not the same as "needs". I'd like to see more art, er ... I can't really think of much else. I like the retrotech feel of the game, and while I have firm favourites I think the many options in character generation, ship design, space combat, etc. just widen the appeal to different gamers, so I'd leave all of them in. But, as mentioned above, there are several Cepheus Engine games that attempt to do just that (though most have their own setting conceits so they're not "pure" CT updated).
Back way before the internet we tended to view editions as natural evolution, adding to earlier editions but not rendering them obsolete. In almost every case we tended to add more and more of our favourite bits from the new game to the old game, until eventually the balance flipped and we were playing the new game with some elements of the old one. Not just Traveller, but also RuneQuest, GURPS, D&D - anything we played that had multiple editions.
Ah, those halcyon days before we'd even heard of edition wars ...
EDIT: Oh, yeah, the original question - I think CT could do with an update - not the same as "needs". I'd like to see more art, er ... I can't really think of much else. I like the retrotech feel of the game, and while I have firm favourites I think the many options in character generation, ship design, space combat, etc. just widen the appeal to different gamers, so I'd leave all of them in. But, as mentioned above, there are several Cepheus Engine games that attempt to do just that (though most have their own setting conceits so they're not "pure" CT updated).
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GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
They came late to Traveller, with TNE, but they had been around for years in D&D by then. RQ didn't catch a bout of Edition Wars until the Avalon Hill edition, Hero not really until 5th, and I don't recall a lot of heat around GURPS editions, but the AD&D vs BECMI vitriol was real on what passed for mass communications back then, USENET and the APAZines. There was also a fair bit of heat when the question of flat vs bell curve mechanics came up, until both teamed up to sneer at dice pools.Ah, those halcyon days before we'd even heard of edition wars ...
Hero? Not 4th/5th... but the 3/4 breakpoint and the 5R/6 breakpoint. 3/4 because of change from adapted cores to monolithic core plus sourcebooks. 5R to 6 because of dropping the figuring of the secondary attributes.
MT didn't get a lot of edition warring, per se, because it was character compatible... but TTNE was character incompatible, craft design mostly incompatible, and craft rating totally incompatible with MT and CT/Striker.
GURPS got mildly warmed at 3 vs 3R, especially on SJG's telnet BBS... but once it was out, that basically died, since those calling for more severe changes were ignored. Some of the called for changes later showed, most notably swaping fatigue and hits association from F=St and H=Ht, to F=Ht and H=St.
You're not mentioning WWIVnet and FidoNet.. which were pretty much available across N. America. WWIVnet was very filled with AD&D 1E vs 2E vs BECMI hostility in the early 90's. I got into BBSing in the mid 1980s, and there was a lot of D&D edition warring, but almost no one ever mentioned Original Edition...
Some of us were too busy playing to edition war in the 80's...Haha, you young whippersnappers with your '90s! That's not what we called "back in the day" back in the day, dagnabbit!
Silverhawk
SOC-12
And some of us (at least the group I was playing with) played the version the Referee chose. Sometimes with a fair amount of house rules and modifications.
I don't do Traveller anymore, but this was one of the key frustrating things that our group always had. It's why some of our guys leaned more towards Champions for gaming sessions. My groups loved Traveller, but having to wing the hit verse damage aspect really tried my patience. And I remember working out a to hit roll on a clear day in a desert with a body pistol verse battledress; i.e. you "hit" and therefore inflict damage, which should be an impossibility.
I understand what Traveller's skill scheme is supposed to represent in its classic setting, and why in some anecdotes dozens of players were in the same session. But morons like myself, who didn't understand the security and law enforcement motif of the game, tried to puzzle out how to use skills beyond DMs for combat oriented skills.
I remember formulating something akin to Champions armor verse body damage scheme, and then nodded my head when I actually read and played Champions. Champions is what they call "super crunchy" with dozens of dice involved in attacks, so it's a bit over the top in that respect, but something like an armor value modified by its tech level verse a penetration value for a weapon modified again by its tech level would, I think, just work miracles and reinvigorate the old game as it was meant to be played by idiots like me who didn't fully understand the game's intent.
I shrug my shoulders at it. I had a good time with Traveller regardless. I'm sorry I couldn't play more of it the way I wanted and with better gaming groups, and without a lot of outside interference. But such is life. PM me if you want to ask more about how I worked out some house rules. They aren't complicated, but probably are off topic for this thread.
Blue Ghost have you had a look at my CT Striker mods? Body location (and skill at hitting center mass) drives half of the damage with weapon pen vs. armor determining the other half. Mix in the QND Medical and you got very descriptive wounds and disabling.
I don't read Traveller as security/LE at all, it has the Space Noir theme to piracy/corporate/heist shenanigans but plenty of milscifi or exploration things/locals wanna eat me combat too.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
If you think of Psionics as "magic" it's a Shadowrun analog ... on an interstellar rather than merely intercity scale ...
If I were to go back to gaming with a kind of scifi theme, then it would be Car Wars, and I would use some of Aaron Allston's AutoVenture fiction to enhance the experience. I had fun with this game, but having pulled back the curtain on a lot of core store structures for fantasy and scifi ... I'm almost of the opinion that criminals are the ultimate artists as they're constantly looking to defeat a system. It's not a big deal to me, but, at one time when I was a young wide eyed scifi fan I thought the genre was about exploring new ideas about society and how people different from humans developed and do things. That's not really the case in film and TV, and has never been the case. So ... I've lost a lot of love and affection for the genre as a whole.
I never did Striker. I didn't want to invest in minis, and minis at the time were really horrible. That's probably changed. But MegaTraveller's hit verse damage scheme came out years after I created a scheme for my old high school group. But, no, I have not seen your damage location and hit-damage rules. But if such a scheme were vetted and proposed as a revamp for old Traveller with it's 2d6 for an 8+ to hit roll, then I think you would have solved all of its problems.
I don't mind posting thoughts here, but I've got some family stuff that needs doing before I come back to RPing.
There's a gross misconception there...
Minis games often work fine with counters instead of minis. Just make certain the base sizes are consistent.
Or just use 3rd party bases for use with Warhammer... no minis, just the bases, and tack a label on.
Hell, 1E WH40K:RT came with counters for the initial several battles....
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I agree with Aramis - the minis in wargames are there for esthetic reasons.
Here in the UK most wargames back in the old days used minis, but people like me who couldn't afford them soon realised it was the base that mattered
.
A board game that used counters was not considered a wargame (here in the UK Avlon Hill and SPI games were classed as boardgames by the grogs), even though many were far superior because the counters could actually have unit information on them that made the game easier to play.
I have a set of plastic tokens that resemble miniature bowling pins - you get them as counters in lots of games. I use them instead of minis; they come in different colours and my players have 'customised' theirs, I have some that are slightly larger that I can use as dragons or vehicles.
Here in the UK most wargames back in the old days used minis, but people like me who couldn't afford them soon realised it was the base that mattered
. A board game that used counters was not considered a wargame (here in the UK Avlon Hill and SPI games were classed as boardgames by the grogs), even though many were far superior because the counters could actually have unit information on them that made the game easier to play.
I have a set of plastic tokens that resemble miniature bowling pins - you get them as counters in lots of games. I use them instead of minis; they come in different colours and my players have 'customised' theirs, I have some that are slightly larger that I can use as dragons or vehicles.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Legos.
Currently, I use mini-meeples for PCs and 8mm cubes for badguys.I agree with Aramis - the minis in wargames are there for esthetic reasons.
Here in the UK most wargames back in the old days used minis, but people like me who couldn't afford them soon realised it was the base that mattered
A board game that used counters was not considered a wargame (here in the UK Avlon Hill and SPI games were classed as boardgames by the grogs), even though many were far superior because the counters could actually have unit information on them that made the game easier to play.
I have a set of plastic tokens that resemble miniature bowling pins - you get them as counters in lots of games. I use them instead of minis; they come in different colours and my players have 'customised' theirs, I have some that are slightly larger that I can use as dragons or vehicles.
And a handful of 1:180 scale tanks a player printed out for me. (Currently running T2K 4E.)
(Yeah, Car Wars scale! For reference a T2K 4E hex is about 2¼" in car wars ×1 scale...)
The irony? One player asked for a chainmail bikini... that's become ironically rather popular amongst my teen and twenty-something female players. Especially when not setting appropriate.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
I have to second this.
For less than actual minis (and no need to paint) you can get a lot of appropriately attired LEGO mini figures to do what you need, either in fantasy or SF themes. Plus, if you don't care about the figures, you can show battle damage, too.
Add in third-party products, like BrickArms, you can get a lot of appropriate accessories, too.
Holy cow! I had no idea. This has me seriously thinking about this. I mean, I’ve always thought it was a fun idea but this takes it to a whole new level. Thanks!
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