Does Classic Traveller need an update?

[Spinward Flow]

The issue with most modern "armor" is that, as detailed above, even though it doesn't penetrate, it still causes trauma.

Simplest solution to that issue is to set up armor as being able to reduce D6 damage results to 1 per D6 ... but can't reduce damage to zero per D6. That way, "some" effects still leak through the armor protection (meaning, you'll "feel it" to some extent regardless), but it allows armor to "do its job" of reducing otherwise life threatening wound potential to being something you can live with (and potentially keep fighting through).

Advances in weaponry though (doing more D6 damage per hit) have ways of getting around that kind of "stopping power" of armor, such that even if the armor "works" to save your life, you're still going to be incapacitated by the hit (looking at you PGMP and FGMP weapons) and taken out of the fight.

You don't get that kind of more nuanced distinction from +/- To Hit DMs.

 

[Dragoner]

Getting it right in game is unplayably complex.

I agree, I mean even in the best of my youth, games like Aftermath became too much of a slog. Never mind that people don't want realism when it comes to wounds, where even with hospital care, it would be "roll 2d6 for the amount of months it takes to heal" or roll 8+ to try to save every stat point. C str easily becomes 4 after a protracted stay in the hospital.

As I have gotten old, it is like just roll the to hit, it is simple enough.

The more I think about the less I think CT needs a Update. In that CT was very modular in it’s run, between the various Mini-games and third party materials one only had to pick and choose.

MT was CT with DGP’s favorite mods. Heck, the entirety of the 2d6 rules sets are mods of CT. The fluff from each edition is just that.

So a lot of the discussion here is about which mini-games you are using for your games, your preference. And slightly deep what changes you would like to see in your preferred mini-games.

Remember we all play a game called Traveller, yet no two Traveller games are the same.

Same, I voted no on an update, I basically do play CT even if using Cepheus or Mongoose rules; even straight CT, like the last game, I bought the Traveller Book pod from dtrpg, that way there are no worries from pizza and beer stains. We all have our house rules, and I kinda do the whole rule 0a - no more than three house rules.

Does anyone still use the combat matrices rather than some other system?

Yes, last game I updated them from LBB4 also:

 

[aramis]

Simplest solution to that issue is to set up armor as being able to reduce D6 damage results to 1 per D6 ... but can't reduce damage to zero per D6.

Simple, sure, but not of need realistic.

 

[Straybow]

Getting it right in game is unplayably complex.

I've seen a gaming group with an extremely high tolerance for "complex." Sadly, it was complexity that didn't make, say, armor work in verisimilitude. It was IMO entirely wasted complexity such as multiplying a base damage roll by the caliber of the bullet, which completely ignores the bullet mass and velocity that would have far more influence on damage (e.g., 9mm/.38 pistol vs .375 Win).

Tables are the old school solution. A computer app would be a more current solution that takes the "unplayability" out of complexity.

 

[mike wightman]

I want simple. I also only want a maximum of two dice rolls - one to hit and one for damage resolution.
Armour subtracting damage dice is simple
Armour subtracting from total damage is simple
Armour subtracting from the individual damage dice is simple

anything where you are taking away the square of the second number you thought of multiplied by i is out, although it would offer a quantum solution...

I define simple as easily explained and immediately used by a typical eight year old.

 

[aramis]

I've seen a gaming group with an extremely high tolerance for "complex." Sadly, it was complexity that didn't make, say, armor work in verisimilitude. It was IMO entirely wasted complexity such as multiplying a base damage roll by the caliber of the bullet, which completely ignores the bullet mass and velocity that would have far more influence on damage (e.g., 9mm/.38 pistol vs .375 Win).

Tables are the old school solution. A computer app would be a more current solution that takes the "unplayability" out of complexity.

Or, in the case of many students I've taught, put it into the "completely unplayable" category. While most college kids have cellphones, a lot of low income kids don't, or have ones that have almost no storage space and won't run apps off SD cards...

It's been really enlightening to watch how the D&D kids played up until lockdown... even the ones with tablets usually used dead tree sheets, usually even hand transcribed special abilities. Most don't even buy the spell cards.

Of my players, not normally D&D, some wanted sheets typed, others wanted to handwrite the data on. None want Mk0, Mk1 nor Mk2 generic....

Spoiler

Mks 0-3: blank paper, lined paper, or graph paper, respectively.

 

[robject]

I want simple. I also only want a maximum of two dice rolls - one to hit and one for damage resolution.
Armour subtracting damage dice is simple
Armour subtracting from total damage is simple
Armour subtracting from the individual damage dice is simple

anything where you are taking away the square of the second number you thought of multiplied by i is out, although it would offer a quantum solution...

I define simple as easily explained and immediately used by a typical eight year old.

I've held that opinion since 1996 or so. Combat is already flush with choice and complexity. It doesn't need more.
And actually I'd be okay with armor carrying a to-hit DM like in CT, but I don't want to consult a table like in CT.

Also, I have one thought -- It's probably okay to roll damage more than once, under certain circumstances. "Oh, my shotgun makes one attack but does TWO damage rolls? AWESOME!"

But I'm otherwise in the same place. It's "bad" to roll to-hit more than once. I'd prefer to never roll to-hit, but that would probably make the damage roll annoyingly complicated, so.

 

[Dragoner]

I'm truly alright with the way CT does it, though also fine with CE/MgT armor as damage reduction, and even with the way DnD 5e does it with to hit DC - it is easy enough to grasp. Sun Tzu was correct that battles are won or lost before they begin, and that is where I still see it, more about tactics than dice rolls. The narrative stage of planning seem better for role playing, than a dice grind battle. Though at the same time, growing old, I now have the life experience where I am more interested in character building, and less about risking that work vs a random dice roll.

 

[Condottiere]

Sun Tzu never faced Space Marines.

 

[Deldarius]

Sun Tzu never faced Space Marines.

Or a pack of Chirpers hopped up on caffeine and sugar.

 

[HanleyTucks]

I want simple. I also only want a maximum of two dice rolls - one to hit and one for damage resolution.
Armour subtracting damage dice is simple
Armour subtracting from total damage is simple
Armour subtracting from the individual damage dice is simple

anything where you are taking away the square of the second number you thought of multiplied by i is out, although it would offer a quantum solution...

I define simple as easily explained and immediately used by a typical eight year old.

I think: not more than two rolls to resolve anything, and explainable to an 8yo - these are good general game design principles, not just for combat stuff.

 

[Deldarius]

I think: not more than two rolls to resolve anything, and explainable to an 8yo - these are good general game design principles, not just for combat stuff.

The KISS method!

Taco Tuesday's, however will need more than two rolls.

 

[kilemall]

The KISS method!

Taco Tuesday's, however will need more than two rolls.

Depends- sustenance, economic competition, cultural effects, cheese modeling, medical healing, morale/psychology- a lot of potential rolls there…

 

[Deldarius]

Depends- sustenance, economic competition, cultural effects, cheese modeling, medical healing, morale/psychology- a lot of potential rolls there…

Charmin, +2 to ~hit.

 

[nats]

Cepheus Deluxe is the closest thing to an updated Classic Traveller game that is available

 

[mike wightman]

No, it really isn't.
It's closer to being an updated MegaTraveller

 

[Dragoner]

An open CT would be sweet.

 

[nats]

No, it really isn't.
It's closer to being an updated MegaTraveller

I wouldnt know I've only owned CT, Gurps Traveller, Traveller20, Mongoose Traveller v1 and 2, and now Cepheus Deluxe. CD is the only version of Traveller that has really impressed me since 1981 ....

 

[nats]

Tables are the old school solution. A computer app would be a more current solution that takes the "unplayability" out of complexity.

There is something very pleasant and refreshing, in today's era of pressing keys and buttons, in actually having to write stuff by hand ....

 

[aramis]

There is something very pleasant and refreshing, in today's era of pressing keys and buttons, in actually having to write stuff by hand ....

last spring, I did a ct demo. I put a 3 page spread, namely, Bk1 pp14-15, S4 pp 6-9, 2-up on 3 letter sized sides, and a "Character Sheet" - a 3×5" index card. I showed a layout on the whiteboard.
Character Gen really got them hyped, and I had time, so we started into Shadows....
I didn't let them keep the sheets.
It highlighted for me the need for a task system; but it also highlighted the brilliance of CT's character creation - it's an exciting minigame, and an investment of time that creates a bond betwixt player and character.
I plan on rerunning it this spring.