Does Classic Traveller need an update?

[jrmapes]

Most people are adapting from other science fiction games, that's how sad its's getting. I had a lofty dream of a rules set called traveller unification, designed to unify all of the versions of the game that went before it. It's not too hard to do until you try and get everyone to agree on what makes a rule set great, as mentioned, it's damaging to say these rules with x supplement are the best, because someone else will say, that some other version of traveller with Y rules are better and so on. What we should continue to do is support the development of stat less and rule less resources and adventures like the 1248 books that anyone can adapt to their own preferred rule set.

With OGL traveller coming soon, this fracturing of the community will only get worse.

I had to quote the whole thing, just because...

When you get to the bottom line this is the truth of the matter folks. No one will ever agree on which rules set is the best. The reasons are obvious. As grand an idea as a Unified rules set is, Cmdr. Drax is right, just as he is right in the further splintering of the Traveller Community by even more versions of the game coming out.

However, we are cursed (for lack of a better word) as RPG players to suffer this fate of being splintered. Someone regardless of the best intentions will always be ready willing and able to put out the next best and greatest editions of a game. When it comes out that many more people will stay behind with the old set and others will move forward and a few new folks will be added along the way to all the sets for the simple fact of publicity and they finding which edition they like best.

It is my wish as well that ALL new supplements be made non-rule set specific and non-milieu specific -- or at least have reference to each rule set. I know the last option is very difficult at this time now that there are 7 and soon to be 8 different rules sets.

 

[aramis]

I'm not forgetting JTAS/Book 8 at all; I'm ruthlessly ignoring it. And, I don't know TD and WD's robots rules.

Book 8 is pushing in the wrong direction. If I want a robot brain in a vehicle, then let me design the vehicle then put a brain in it. If I want C-3PO, then let me design an artificial humanoid and put a brain in it, based on some fundamental similarities with player characters. In other words, design it with the UPP in mind from the beginning, instead of starting out with a metal box with appendages.

Anyway, Book 8 apparently forgot about starship computers (justifiably so, but there's no mention of a retcon, so that leaves me hanging).

Sounds like you'd have more liking of the Dragon Magazine robot rules.

 

[GypsyComet]

Gypsy...c'mon. I mean, I usually respect your posts. You've been around forever.

But, those two statements are utter crap. And to describe a Traveller GM who doesn't think that way as haveing a blindspot is rather eliteist.

Sorry, but I see the elitism going the other direction. The conversation goes something like this:

"I wish Traveller had done this thing."
"It did, in TNE."
"Eh, but that's TNE. It doesn't count/sucks/uses the wrong dice/etc."

Not saying everyone is this way, but I've seen it too often to be happy about it.

I own a bunch of TNE stuff. ... I just never use it. It's collecting dust. There's nothing about the entire edition that I think is worth keeping.

Blindspot? No.

Cold, hard realization that the TNE stuff adds nothing to my game? Yep. That's it.

So your particular blindspot may not include TNE.

The point of all this was a response to the original Poll question. Some people want things added/revised/fixed in CT. I look at the lists that inevitably appear and generally see items that were addressed already, but in later editions, and I have seen, far too often, reactions of willful ignorance when this is pointed out. Not your response of "Eh, I looked at it and it wasn't what I needed" but "Get off my mailing list you Virus-loving bottom-feeder."

I remember when "The Traveller Online Community" meant something positive, and it pains me to see what it has become.

 

[Supplement Four]

"Get off my mailing list you Virus-loving bottom-feeder."

Oh, you're familiar with the TML too?

(Joke. I know you are. Just remembering the good old weekly flame fests of the TML. I think this forum is quite tame and a pleasant place in comparison.)

I remember when "The Traveller Online Community" meant something positive, and it pains me to see what it has become.

It's probably another symptom of the fractionalization of the game. If there never had been another edition...and another edition...and another...we'd all be playing the same game.

 

[atpollard]

It's probably another symptom of the fractionalization of the game. If there never had been another edition...and another edition...and another...we'd all be playing the same game.

... And complaining about the same things as THIS topic which is mostly about CT's omissions and shortcomings and strengths.

 

[robject]

But, what about being faithful to the hard science roots of Traveller? That seems a bit over TL16. Are you suggesting that Traveller design system be capable to designing everything rather than what is most likely for the genre?

Faithful to the what what of what now?

 

[robject]

I remember when "The Traveller Online Community" meant something positive, and it pains me to see what it has become.

Must have been before my time. Was that on the X-Boat list? I was there for its final year, and seemed nice. But then I was young in the ways of Traveller...

 

[DaveChase]

OK how about this

Some one get the license from Marc to make the ultimate conversion guide to all Traveller editons.

It could have 7 sections (or 8 depending on how you count) for each edition explaining how to convert all other editions to that version.

Then it would have another chapter explaining how to take your favorite movie/book/etc subject/character/equipment and make it Traveller usable.

The above said partly tongue and cheek And partly out of want.
Most all GM's will do the work needed to make their universe workable to what they want, but there are those whom just don't have the time.

Dave Chase

 

[far-trader]

Some one get the license from Marc to make the ultimate conversion guide to all Traveller editons.

It could have 7 sections (or 8 depending on how you count) for each edition explaining how to convert all other editions to that version.

:rofl:

Sounds like a prescription for insanity or at the very least a bit of mental masochism.

The above said partly tongue and cheek...

Ditto

 

[aramis]

Must have been before my time. Was that on the X-Boat list? I was there for its final year, and seemed nice. But then I was young in the ways of Traveller...

XBoat was a good list, and was closed over the objections of the user base. Many of us didn't want to combine the XBML and the TML, because the TML was a hostile place.

 

[WingOver]

I'd like to see Traveller use the game mechanics from my fave game of all time, Aftermath! It was complex but it had a realistic feel to it. I was particularly fond of the skills, how your level of competency was derived and the use of a task flow chart.

 

[ravells]

I clicked yes on the basis that parts of the content need to be updated, but I would say that the game mechanics are near perfect for me.

 

[GypsyComet]

Oh, you're familiar with the TML too?

(Joke. I know you are. Just remembering the good old weekly flame fests of the TML. I think this forum is quite tame and a pleasant place in comparison.)

By TML standards I'm a "Great Old One". Scary thought, that.

 

[aramis]

I'd like to see Traveller use the game mechanics from my fave game of all time, Aftermath! It was complex but it had a realistic feel to it. I was particularly fond of the skills, how your level of competency was derived and the use of a task flow chart.

I've played Aftermath... <shudder>... Rolemaster is simpler.

No, Classic Traveller needs an update, bordering on a minor overhaul, but not "yet another incompatible edition".

 

[Icosahedron]

It seems to me that:

We agree that all the bits of CT need consolidating - drawing in from the core books, Jtas, Challenge, Dragon, White Dwarf, DGP, and wherever else, and forming into a new, logically laid out and indexed volume.

We disagree about who might do that, who might have the authority to do that, and when / if it might happen.

We agree that there are errors, conflicts and anachronisms in the CT material that need fixing - some of them glaring, some more esoteric.

We disagree on what should be fixed, how it should be fixed, what constitutes an improvement, and whether 'fixes' in later versions should be used or abandoned.

We agree that there are too many different versions of Traveller.

We even disagree on what we actually mean by 'CT'.


Let's face it - there's not much hope, is there?

I'll stick with good old house rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

We agree that all the bits of CT need consolidating - drawing in from the core books, Jtas, Challenge, Dragon, White Dwarf, DGP, and wherever else, and forming into a new, logically laid out and indexed volume.

You know what I'd buy faster than I can think to do it? I'd like to see two things:

(1) A CT Consolodation. I'm not talking about a new edition or rule changes. I'm not talking about any "new" material at all. But, as I proposed earlier in the thread, I'd buy, in a heartbeat, a consolodation of the game. A set of rules that adds-in all the extra rules from all the far-flung sources. The most "relavent" source would be used in the case of inconsistencies (GDW over DGP, DGP over some obscure magazine referance).

Now, this would be a huge endeavor. A lot of work. The price you could get for the item might not be worth the effort putting it together.

So...







What about a second idea....

(2) A CT Index. CT stays exactly the way it is. Instead, a book is published. A Little Black Book. Supplement 14: The Imperial Encyclopedia.

This book would be nothing but a reference work. Someone would comb over every published CT work, from the rarest fanzine, to every published adventure, every published supplement, everything CT.

This book would reference that material. When the reference is slight, sections of the rule could be reprinted in S14. When the reference is easy to find in other CT works today, a page number is all that is needed.

Rights will be an issue. Not so much with some older fanzines, I'd bet, but with articles from magazines like White Dwarf and Dragon. And, of course, Roger Sanger and the DGP stuff might be an issue.

I thought a compilation CD-ROM, or a book, of all the White Dwarf Traveller articles, and all the Dragon Traveller articles, would be a nice separate release, not unlike the JTAS.

I'd like to see this happen for CT. Easy accesss to that hard-to-find material.

 

[Icosahedron]

You know what I'd buy faster than I can think to do it? I'd like to see two things:

(1) A CT Consolodation.
(2) A CT Index. CT stays exactly the way it is. Instead, a book is published. A Little Black Book. Supplement 14: The Imperial Encyclopedia.

We disagree about who might do that, who might have the authority to do that, and when / if it might happen.

QED.

(plus another few characters for the brevity police).

 

[Supplement Four]

QED.

(plus another few characters for the brevity police).

A CT lover can dream, can't he?

 

[coliver988]

BITS has a bibliography (http://www.bitsuk.net/Products/Info/Info.html). It may or may not have what you are asking for in (2):

"
Ever wondered just what or where "Wabor-Parn" is? This updated version of The Traveller Bibliography provides information on hundreds of Traveller products! It covers five different editions of the game, from the original little black books of Classic Traveller through to GURPS Traveller (cut off date is November 1999). Rulebooks, supplements, adventures, boxed games are all included, described and indexed by author, era, type, publisher and title. Each item has details of title, author, publisher, date of release, format, number of pages and comments on usefulness and contents...

"

And there's a periodical bibliography as well. Now if they could just combine those!

 

[Supplement Four]

BITS has a bibliography (http://www.bitsuk.net/Products/Info/Info.html). It may or may not have what you are asking for in (2):

I've got it. I've got most things CT (just missing some obscure, old, items). It's not quite what I'm talking about, but a good effort.