Does Classic Traveller need an update?

[Icosahedron]

A bibliography is fine to a point, it makes you aware of all those obscure texts, but it doesn't help you to locate and read them. I'd love to check out some of the DGP stuff or some of the later Challenge/White Dwarf articles, but they're all out of print and fetching silly prices if you can find them, and you can't run an internet swapshop without violating copyright.

The CT CD was a godsend - without it, I'd still be limited to books 1-8 and a handful of dogeared Jtas and supplements. I couldn't even get Books 7 & 8 until the reprints came out!

We just need CT CD vol#2 incorporating generous donations/licences from copyright holders who're never going to use the stuff themselves. (Any volunteers to play the Ghost of Christmas Future?)

You can then leave Referees to figure out their own improvements (or not) in the grand old spirit of Classic Traveller.

Yes, a CT lover can dream.

 

[deniable]

I agree completely. I started my collection towards the end of the MT era. This means that even if I wanted to run CT, all of the cool stuff I see referenced has never been available to me. I've got most of the BFBs, so they aren't a problem, but the rest may as well not exist.

 

[coliver988]

at one point on the FFE website there was an indication of a FASA CD. That went away.

I can see wanting all the documents/articles dealing with, say, vacc suits, and then you'd have a single source (if potentially conflicting) for all the rules established for vacc suits (JTAS aticles, DGP products, etc).

The first step, at least as far as CT is concerned, is actually partially there via the CD-ROM. Open your PDF reader w/the CD in the drive & you can search the entire thing getting all hits. While not exactly what we would really like, it is a start. I've a Traveller sub-directory on my systems where I stash everything I want to keep (just wish I could actually play sometime!) and there are various desktop search engines for the files with text, at least (straight ASCII, PDF, Word, etc). Alas, without true metadata, you are really only going to get test matches as opposed to idea matches (I want all the rules dealing with vacc suits: if the article has 'pressure suit' or some other name for the same thing, you're going to miss it)

This goes back the the CT+ and other threads dealing with consolidation and stuff within a single version (i.e., MT is NOT a compilation of CT rules, although there is some of that in there, but there are additional rules established in different books/journals/etc).


Heck - there have been enough rules discussions here that should apply as well (for instance, the great 68A task system: I stopped playing about the time MT came out so never dealt with a task resolution system other than CT which is, pretty much, the 68A rule the way we played). I did download the HIWG CD so that's another source of potentially interesting rules.


Bottom line is that we need an enterprise search engine on all the various Traveller products

 

[Zparkz]

I agree completely. I started my collection towards the end of the MT era. This means that even if I wanted to run CT, all of the cool stuff I see referenced has never been available to me. I've got most of the BFBs, so they aren't a problem, but the rest may as well not exist.

I got into Traveller about a year after MT was released and it took me more than a year to realise that there was other stuff to traveller than those few MT books I first found. References to High Guard and so on intrigued me. However keeping tabs on the "old" stuff was more or less impossible. For me as a gamer and GM it got easier when TNE was released. I finally could follow a setting properly.

That said, I have managed to get most of the CT books and supplements released by both GDW and DGP over the years.

 

[atpollard]

I would argue that, today, Classic Traveller does not include any of the CT material which is no longer available. Who cares if an out-of-print book by a third party that will NEVER be reissued as a reprint or PDF had a rule on some topic?

Most of CT is on the FFE CDs. Most of the rest is forever lost and should be dealt with as just another 'house rule'.

Just my opinion.

 

[Supplement Four]

Who cares if an out-of-print book by a third party that will NEVER be reissued as a reprint or PDF had a rule on some topic?

Oh, but there's a lot of GREAT stuff out there that is in the process of being lost to time. CT lovers WILL care about that.

I know I do.

I jumped for joy (with good reason) when I found DGP's Grand Census and Grand Survey for $20 each, over the net, about two years ago. They're excellent supplements (and I already owned the MT World Builder's Handbook and, of course, had access to Heaven & Earth).

I've hunted down all the issues of Dragon, Pegasus, and White Dwarf magazines that included articles on Traveller. Those, as a compliation, are just as good as the JTAS reprints (which I think are incredible).

I have some Ares, some Space Gamer, some Imagine Magazine, and some Different Worlds issues with Traveller articles, but not all. I'd love to have all of them.

FASA has some excellent Traveller items. These are well worth caring about. Far Traveller and High Passage magazine. Tons of ships and deckplans. And, a few adventures, including the famous Sky Raider trilogy.

Gamelords--more Keith stuff. Dunraiders plus other adventuers. Classic Traveller environment books (Mountain, Sea, Artic).

Marischal Adventures. Even more Keith stuff. All short adventures, but they're linked. They make a campaign (actually, two different campaigns, one taking place on a Naval vessel during the Fifth Frontier War...and the other on the Scotian Huntress...the same ship used in one of the GDW Adventures).

Judges Guild has some interesting supplements (and some adventures that are really pretty well done).

Paranoia Press has some excellent stuff well worth tracking down.

And, there are a lot of things I'd still like to get my hands on...like The Lost Kieth Supplements.

Bottom line: I think there's a lot out there to get real excited about. I wish it was all easy to find and get.

Most of the rest is forever lost and should be dealt with as just another 'house rule'.

Some of the stuff, I can see that stance. But, there is a lot of material that most CT GMs would die for.

The best stuff?

I'd say...

DGP CT stuff (as in 101 Robots, a complete run of Travellers Digest, Grand Census, Grand Survey).

Dragon Magazine Articles (as useful and as excellent as the JTAS compiliations).

White Dwarf Magazine Articles (ditto. Great set of articles on Traveller).

FASA stuff (as in both High Passage and Far Traveller magazine, Sky Raider Trilogy, Adventure/Merchant/Aslan Mercenary Class Ships, etc.).

Gamelords stuff (Artic/Sea/Mountain/Desert Enviornment books, Adventures, etc.)

Paranoia Press stuff (SORAG, Scouts & Assassins, Merchants & Merchandise, etc.)

 

[DaveChase]

Ooppss let me clarify that brain part

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Drax
hmmm, robot brains in cows, that would take some justification, after all most livestock is bred to be eaten, I'd love to see any organic citizen subsist on a diet of robot steaks.


The cow brains are organic not the body. Same with the horses.

Sorry about that, after rereading my post and Drax's comment I should have been clearer.

That is why it takes some time to train the brains and they have to be done soon after "birth".

Dave Chase

 

[Foxroe]

By TML standards I'm a "Great Old One". Scary thought, that.

Ooooo... this gives me a great idea for YAEOT:

TRAVELLER^6: RISE OF CTHULHU

It will be an unaltered re-release of CT, except that the Imperium has been destroyed by the return of the Great Old Ones! And any attempt to use rules from previous editions will curse the players to a life of gibbering insanity! MOOOHAHAHAHA!:devil:

Oooorrrr, maybe not...

I love CT as is. For me, the rules aren't "broken" or in need of "updating". They are simply the rules for the Classic edition of Traveller, that's how that game is played, and I'm happy with it.

(And yes, I passed my Sanity check...)

- Fox

 

[Icosahedron]

I would argue that, today, Classic Traveller does not include any of the CT material which is no longer available. Who cares if an out-of-print book by a third party that will NEVER be reissued as a reprint or PDF had a rule on some topic?

Most of CT is on the FFE CDs. Most of the rest is forever lost and should be dealt with as just another 'house rule'.

Just my opinion.

S4 has very fully answered this, but my Cr2 is that the whole spirit of CT is about the Referee making up house rules to hang onto the framework, and if there are materials (or even other house rules) out there that might influence or improve his game, the CT Ref wants to know about them so he can incorporate or adapt them as he sees fit. EVERYTHING is useful to a CT Ref.

Rant coming on:
What is it with guys who buy a copyright and bury it? It's like the selfish B****s who buy rare stamps just to burn them!
If you don't want to use the copyright, sell it to someone who does.
Rant over.

 

[Jame]

S4 has very fully answered this, but my Cr2 is that the whole spirit of CT is about the Referee making up house rules to hang onto the framework, and if there are materials (or even other house rules) out there that might influence or improve his game, the CT Ref wants to know about them so he can incorporate or adapt them as he sees fit. EVERYTHING is useful to a CT Ref.

I entirely agree. I would like rules that update the computers, sensors and the tech scale (e.g. the bioscanner I keep harping on), plus adding in cybernetics. They could be fairly optional for those groups who like it as it is.

Rant coming on:
What is it with guys who buy a copyright and bury it? It's like the selfish B****s who buy rare stamps just to burn them!
If you don't want to use the copyright, sell it to someone who does.
Rant over.

Sometimes it's not about the copyright, it's about the control. He doesn't want to have it, he just wants to keep someone else from having it.

 

[mike wightman]

Hmm, I wonder how I missed this thread all those years ago - some very interesting things mentioned.

 

[aramis]

at one point on the FFE website there was an indication of a FASA CD. That went away.

since someone already necro'd the thread...

No, it didn't. It got renamed Apocrypha, and 3 other publishers' books were added to it.

 

[robject]

Hmm, I wonder how I missed this thread all those years ago - some very interesting things mentioned.

Yeah. But instead of writing up worlds like I should have done, I instead read this entire thread.

 

[Vladika]

Yeah. But instead of writing up worlds like I should have done, I instead read this entire thread.

That can make one suicidal.

 

[Dagrill]

I do believe it needs an update, but no one yet has done it right. MoTrav and Mega both come really close. I missed the playtest of ACT, so it might have been, and may yet still be, a viable option.

I haven't voted as surely these count as updates?

Shouldn't there be more option - don't like the updates and like the updates?

Regards

David

 

[Golan2072]

CT's The Traveller Book is almost perfect. What it needs IMHO is:

1) Transfer the text to a new document file, OCR or otherwise.
2) Find the best Traveller art FFE owns to rights to and use it.
3) Fix all errata.
4) Use the Starter Traveller space combat rules.
5) Re-layout the text and best art in a new, modern, full-res PDF file.
6) Add a modern index in the back, full PDF index and full searchability.
7) Sell this as a PDF through DTRPG/LULU and as PoD.
8) Profit!

 

[mike wightman]

Since you are talking about reformatting and fixing i would add two extra appendices:

the task system pages from the MT PM and RM (only adds 7 pages, probably less if formatted to TB standard type)

whichever ship combat system didn't make it to the main rules (so range band as an option if the book is unmodified).

 

[Vargas]

For me, CT could use an upgrade although a fairly minor one.

I like the addition of more art and a general reformatting.

Consolidate the advanced char gen rules in one place and expand the Other career to the same standard. (Or at least an upgraded Book 1 Other career).

Add a task system or at least systematize the 8+ roll concept.

Drop the computer programs for ships.

 

[Marchand]

the task system pages from the MT PM and RM (only adds 7 pages, probably less if formatted to TB standard type)

I dislike the way the MT task system loses the granularity across values for the characteristic effect - divide by five, drop fractions means 5,6,7,8,9 are all functionally equivalent.

I'd use S4's UGM instead.

 

[Marchand]

For me, CT could use an upgrade although a fairly minor one.

I like the addition of more art and a general reformatting.

Consolidate the advanced char gen rules in one place and expand the Other career to the same standard. (Or at least an upgraded Book 1 Other career).

Add a task system or at least systematize the 8+ roll concept.

Drop the computer programs for ships.

[Apologies for double-post; I should have read Vargas's post before responding to Mike's]

There are loads more advanced careers knocking around that could be integrated - Flyers from MT COACC; police, secret service, scientists and medics from JTAS.

I like the computer programs. Just say switching from, say, Predict to Multi-target means reconfiguring the ship's sensors (rather than swapping round rolls of, ahem, magnetic tape).